Caching Frames For Roto Work

[user_deleted]

Hi I have been working on 2K plates in AE and am switching to Shake. I have one question regarding caching frames. In Shake I can't get the frames to playback realtime unless I make a flipbook and what I would like to do is cache a 100 2K frames within Shake and then roto them without having to pause between frames to wait for it to update. When I use this technique in AE I can scrub the timeline (like shift click and dragging a flipbook) while watching my roto mask, seriously decreasing the mindnumbing drudgery.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Pete

[user_deleted]

There are two issues here.

1) Shakes appauling caching on osX (is that the platform that you are using?). Last time I used Shake for Linux (V3.01 I think) the caching worked, it aso worked on V2.x for Windows. Apple will never tell you this but from my experience of Shake for osX (V3.01, V3.5, V4) caching has never worked properly. People will tell you that it is because permissions are not set correct or there are some other system level issues but the fact is, Shake for osX doesnt work properly.

2) Shake is not designed to be a real time playback application. Dont compare it to after effects, Its like comparing Illustrator to Photoshop. They are essentially made for different tasks and have a totally different architecture. Every time you change to a new frame in shake, the script is compiled using whatever variables and inputs are relevant for that frame. Therefore, it will never play real-time footage, it isnt meant to. This has benefits and drawbacks, if it isnt working for you, stick to After effects, you probably dont need shake.

[user_deleted]

Thanks mikemarcus, that's what I suspected. I'll stick with AE for most of my roto then and do the comps in Shake. It would be nice if I could import AE masks somehow into Shake.
Thanks
Pete

[user_deleted]

http://www.silhouettefx.com/roto/

[user_deleted]

HI mikemarcus. I thnik Silhouette roto is a plugin which works inside of AE but it is actually a separate application and to the best of my knowledge you can't open a normal AE mask inside the silhouette roto plugin nor can you convert masks you make in the plugin into normal AE masks. Sihouette roto is also a bit sluggish to refresh frames. Like Shake it doesn't seem to fully cache frames. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks
Pete O'Connell

www.barxseven.com

[deke-kincaid]

QUOTE(Pete O @ 01/31/06, 11:22 PM) [snapback]226911[/snapback]
Sihouette roto is also a bit sluggish to refresh frames. Like Shake it doesn't seem to fully cache frames. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Silhouette is definately not sluggish. It caches wonderfully and ran extremely fast on the dual 2ghz G5 at my last job.

[user_deleted]

I havent really used it other than poking around the demo but I believe that people are using it extensively for importing shapes from one application and converting them to another format. It runs as an AE plugin, standalone and now as a Shake plugin.

Most of this is hearsay, correct me if I am wrong.

[user_deleted]

I think I will end up using silhouette for converting AE masks into Shake roto shapes. Beaker, I tried silhouette to test how well it caches, and it is good but on my computer (G5), but it isn't nearly as fast as AE. If I use a DOD (ROI) in AE, I can cache 300 2K cineon plate frames to work on, and I can scrub through them as fast as I want and they will all update instantaneously including the mask. Maybe it is just what I am used to and I am missing something.
Pete

[deke-kincaid]

Change the max ram usage in the prefs. I don't think it is set very high by default, so your not able to cache as much.

Just the crappy ui and speed of grabing points and move them around and move handles and missing selecting a handle/point and having to select the spline before you can grab a handle again and only being able to zoom in 50%, 100% or 150% and nothing between all in AE makes me want to commit suicide! I haven't used v.7 yet, but 6.5 sucks.

[user_deleted]

QUOTE(Pete O @ 01/31/06, 11:22 PM) [snapback]226911[/snapback]
I thnik Silhouette roto is a plugin which works inside of AE but it is actually a separate application and to the best of my knowledge you can't open a normal AE mask inside the silhouette roto plugin nor can you convert masks you make in the plugin into normal AE masks. Sihouette roto is also a bit sluggish to refresh frames. Like Shake it doesn't seem to fully cache frames. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I'll go ahead and correct ya...

Silhoutte does spawn externally from AE and only uses AE for I/O, but otherwise it's very tightly integrated. When adding the silhouette effect to your footage, it spawns silhouette. you close silhouette, the changes show immediately in the AE comp. You CAN shuffle masks between the two. AE masks into silhouette, silhouette masks to AE.

Silhouette is not sugglish to refresh frames - only if you're on a slow computer with an old video card. On modern hardware, it plays 2k film frames real time.

give it a spin - for real roto jobs, there is nothing better. this is the way to work, the compositor you want with the best roto app out plugged into it.