Fuil Sail & Gnomon 3D

[nagata]

how hard is it to get into gnomon? because i know its a low enrollment type of school...because my chioces in schools are getting knocked down fast because of money...my original plan was to go to Savannah College of Art and Design...but that school is 23K a year....abd i can't that much money in loans when i need a alternative...which would be gnomon...so my question is once again...is it hard to get accepted to gnomon?

[hary1976]

This seems to be a rather big question throughout the industry for all aspiring students. I myself have been pondering over this for ages as to which school I should choose. It is a rather hard choice up here in Canada as the industry has not yet fully bloomed as it has down in the silicon valley. I looked into Gnomon school as well and it seemed fabulous, but the problem was still there with the fact of boarding, moving and the exchange rate which skyrocketed admissions to almost $45,000 CAD. If anyone here is from around the Toronto region please let me know as far as schools go. So far I am hoping on being accepted into Sheridan college after doing a placement at Topix this past winter.

[sarkaz]

My name is Tom Bruno and I will soon be completing Gnomon's Certificate program. I looked at the other 3-D schools in the LA area before deciding upon Gnomon. I had some traditional, some 2-D, and some film experience, however I had no 3-D experience whatsoever. I may have chosen Gnomon because they didn't accept me into the Certificate program at first. (Was it Groucho Marx who said he wouldn't want to be a member of a Country Club that would accept him?) The administration asked that I first take some classes, including an Intro to 3D course. Not only did this give me the opportunity to see what 3D was all about, but I was able to familiarize myself with the school as well. Later on, when I was accepted, the courses I had taken were applied toward my Certificate so no time was wasted.

The thing that stands out most when I look back at my year at Gnomon is the caliber of their instructors.  First of all, since the tools and technology are constantly evolving in this relatively young and specialized arena, you better be sure that your instructors are working professionals familiar with the methods and techniques currently being employed in the industry.  It is so comforting to hear This is how we did it on \_\_\_\_\_\_.   Secondly, you can have the most brilliant and well-informed instructor in the world,  but if he/she can't communicate this information to you in way that you can understand you've learned nothing.  It is very apparent that Gnomon's administration prioritizes this when staffing.  Finally, what I think might be the most difficult issue for any instructor to deal with is the varying skill levels among their students in any given course.   Time and time again,  I've been surprised by the fact that both a beginner and an advanced user have completed a class delighted with what they've learned.

There were certain aspects of the Certificate program that seemed daunting and unnecessary, but in retrospect were extremely beneficial.  The program required that I take 2 "analog" courses each term.   Some of these were on topics like "The Principals of Animation" or "The History of Visual Effects" (VERY important things to know), but most concentrated on honing one's traditional art skills.  As it turns out, the majority of potential employers are of the notion that "you can be taught the tools, but you can't be taught creativity."  They want evidence of that creativity integrated into your reel.  This brings me to the other difficult requirement of the program.   At the end of each term, Certificate students are required to submit their work for review by an industry professional in the form of a VHS reel. This was a real pain in the ass!  Getting feedback from someone in the industry on your strengths and weaknesses, plans for your final demo reel, and career advice were the obvious benefits.  But learning to render in various passes at the correct resolution, assemble and edit your renderings, add a soundtrack, and output all of it to VHS is crucial knowledge to have since you'll be adding pieces to your reel throughout your career (and, believe me, after doing it 5 times you'll be a pro!).

As I now approach the end of the program, I am secure in my abilities thanks to the knowledge and skills I

[bradalexander]

When asked for my opinion about fullsail, I will be inclined to give this answer. NO DON'T GO!!! This school is made for little kiddies whos Mommy and Daddy are rich and and want to get them out of the house. The classes are highly unorganized, the majority of the insturctors have no real background, frequently were late to lectures... extremely egotistic in thinking only there way was that right way and you can only do things one way. Many of them came to me asking how I did things. Lab instructors are ex-grads who were not able to find jobs in the industry and settled for taking a low paying job at the school they graduated from. Just to let you know who these comments are comming from, I want you all to know that I ended up having the highest GPA in that program that anyone ever had and perfect attendance. I will tell you right now that it is in no way worth your cash or anyones. You would be much better off getting a loan and buying Maya Unlimited and freelance as your learning rather than pay this school to read the manuals to you, which is basically all they did. This school is more concerned about your money and could care less if they teach you anything. They are infamous for bringing students in and giving them a flashy tour with pretty lights all over the place. The way the place runs internally however is far from flashy.

[joaomontenegro]

Reply to - I am currently enrolled in Full Sail, and aside from a few qwerks, I think that it is an excellent school. The person that said that it was like pulling teeth to get help must have been a very difficult person to work with. They tell you straight out, if you put in effort, then they will go the extra time to help you with whatever you are working on. Why should they waste their spare time if you dont care? -

Sorry but thats not ever close to being accurate, I cared about my education at full sail more than most other students i knew there, Since i had to pay for it all myself. I dont thing im hard to work with, i just want what i pay for, and instructors standing around playing quake all day, dosebt cut it. In my last post i was trying to soften the edge a little but really i think BradAlexander pretty much hit the nail on the head. I basically learned everything i know after fullsail. There job placement program is a joke, and they are in every way designed to dazzle you and suck you with talk of "all your dreams coming true," and as soon as your done youll have no problem landing whatever job you want.
Most people i know how graduated went into web design, which is totally fine, but had nothing to what we learned.
Honestly its horrible, Run screaming the ither way...

[jericho-green]

In reply to:
If anybody know anything about Gnomon3D and whether it is a good school please let me know. Thanks

I also am enrolled in the certifacate program at gnomon- aside from the fact that you have to live in hollywood- I Think gnomon is by far the most qualified school in california. I looked into the center for new media in emeryville (http://www.xnewmedia.com) , Mesmer (www.mesmer.com), and gnomon- Of these choices, even though I was living in oakland at the time, I decited to go to gnomon. The founders all worked for alias|wavefront before (some still do) starting gnomon. The class structure is VERY challenging- this term I have char/ environment design, organic nurbs modeling, skinning, cloth/fur, and particles! ouch. but If you want a challenge from cualified professionals, then definetly go take a tour at gnomon.
check out this video that Alex Alverez did this year with the help of one gnomon grad (sean mills subD uv mapping)and one student on his last term(keif char anim) amoung others (http://www.the-gnomon-workshop.com/comingsoon.html)
Pam Hogarth, who handles the job placement and PR isues is great too- she is well respected in the industry and has a lot of friends in high places like sony, dreamworks, ilm, to name a few. Not to mention that some siggraph, and alias|wavefront users group meetings are held there-

Geez I sound like a salesman- just take a look on gnomons website and read up on the staff.

All in all its the [censored]
-j

jetted with the lottery- possibly they spotted me

[ricedragonls96]

Ringling School of Art and Design has possibly the best computer animation department in the country. The people i know who graduated from there all have demo reels that look as if the have been in the industry for 10 years or so. I think it's a 4 year program, as opposed to full-sail, but the proof is in the pudding. compare the portfolios between the two schools. I know of at least 2 animations from ringling students that have academy awards. I don't know, there might be more.

-Bunny (Blue Sky studios, Ed Gavin teaches at RSAD)
-Jataka (a couple kids from ringling)

Go to SIGGRAPH next year. There are ALWAYS dozens of RSAD animations featured.

[ricedragonls96]

By the way, me and my friends always used to point our browsers at the Fullsail 3d portfolio whenever we wanted to laugh so hard we fell on the floor.

Gnomon and CalArt are great if you're on the west coast, but if you Have to pick between Fullsail and Ringling, I'd go Ringling, hands down.

Remember, Fullsail might have a booth at SIGGRAPH, but Ringling is the one with 20 animations in the electronic theater. NUFF SAID!

[ricedragonls96]

ONE MORE THING! and then I'll shut up.

At Fullsail, they still use SGI 02's.
At Ringling, the backup render farm (yes that's right, they have 2 render farms) is all the old 02's that they USED TO use. The new hardware that they have will run circles around an 02.

[chechen]

i myself am a student at gnomon right now, in my 3rd term... gnomon is an amazing school. all of the faculty actually has full time jobs in the field so not only are you learning from the people who you are going to soon be competing with, they are able to see your progress and how well you are doing, which isn't bad for the future. i went to a crap school in arizona that was complete junk. i was a little sketched about gnomon, but i'm so glad i started... rather than teaching you the software and telling you what to do, they present the software and push your creative level to the edge. the school makes you think and definately keeps you busy if you're not a slacker, i guarantee you will come out of there with a very good reel and portfolio. i think tom bruno summed it up quite well..... do as he says, check it for yourself.

beekay-

[tokyostormdrain]

In reply to:
ONE MORE THING! and then I'll shut up.

At Fullsail, they still use SGI 02's.
At Ringling, the backup render farm (yes that's right, they have 2 render farms) is all the old 02's that they USED TO use. The new hardware that they have will run circles around an 02.

***********************

MadLinx,

Yes, Fullsail uses O2s for modeling classes. Fullsail's render farm consists of older SGIs.

They use custom made Athlon PCs and HP Visualize Workstations for animation. You're right, they're quite a bit faster than O2s.

-FS_RAZ

[j-christopher]

In reply to:

[quote]
In reply to:
ONE MORE THING! and then I'll shut up.

At Fullsail, they still use SGI 02's.
At Ringling, the backup render farm (yes that's right, they have 2 render farms) is all the old 02's that they USED TO use. The new hardware that they have will run circles around an 02.

***********************

MadLinx,

Yes, Fullsail uses O2s for modeling classes. Fullsail's render farm consists of older SGIs.

They use custom made Athlon PCs and HP Visualize Workstations for animation. You're right, they're quite a bit faster than O2s.

-FS_RAZ

[/quote]

the hp puters are crap. they need upgrades, re-networked and are not treated well. the athalons are in an off limits to students lab. no one in computer animation uses them for anything. this place is a toal 100% marketing scam. i think everyone out there should know that.

[tokyostormdrain]

the hp puters are crap. they need upgrades, re-networked and are not treated well. the athalons are in an off limits to students lab. no one in computer animation uses them for anything. this place is a toal 100% marketing scam. i think everyone out there should know that.

---

gunrock46,

It depends on what you call crap. The HP Visualize systems they use are dual Pentium III 733s, with 768MB of RAM and two 18GB SCSI hard drives.

In the land of the rich and famous, those specs may not be much nowadays. However, for nearly two years old, those did just fine for myself and everyone else in my class. I've used much less powerful systems.

For one year I never encountered the need for any upgrades to the hardware (software was upgraded), and never encountered networking errors. I don't know where you're coming from on these points, perhaps if you'd like to e-mail me privately we can discuss those matters that I was so very fortunate to miss for my entire stay at Fullsail.

The Athlon lab, the Visualization Center (not to be confused with the HPs) is not off limits. To say that no computer animation student uses them is not true.

I had my GCSD (Game Character and Scene Design) month in that lab. The computers worked fine, and when our poly models were completed we got to see them displayed on the large screen as they were placed in our instructor's world, and we were flown through it.

To state that it's a total 100% marketing scam is of course your opinion and you're entitled to it. I accept it.

My opinion is that it is not a scam.

On a side note here folks, it always looks like the most jaded of Fullsail students post on these boards. My experiences there were positive. I know there are plenty of other Fullsail students who would agree with that sentiment, but instead of posting to this messageboard they're out doing something else. Animating, perhaps?

I would encourage all prospective Fullsail students to take note of all that is said on these highly informative messageboards, but to truly make an informed decision yourselves by calling and visiting the campus yourself. Ask questions that arise from these messageboard posts.

Thanks for your time and good luck in your school search.

-FS_RAZ

[ripsting]

I am a student at SCAD right now, and am having a great experience. I attended VCU (a well known fine arts school) to get my core classes out of the way at a cheap price, and tranfered to SCAD (yes all my credits transfered). I have been here for the better part of a quarter (no semesters here) and love it. The professors are great, I just attended a lecture by laurence plotkin (the HR guy at Digital Domain) and the head of the 3D track just hired a guy to teach Houdini that worked on the Harry Potter special effects. If you can afford it, the school is great. Classes are very small 15-22 and the machines are pretty good (running a speed machine in my room with a student version of Maya, so I dont use the labs much) but they are there if you need em. Hope this helps

In reply to:
how hard is it to get into gnomon? because i know its a low enrollment type of school...because my chioces in schools are getting knocked down fast because of money...my original plan was to go to Savannah College of Art and Design...but that school is 23K a year....abd i can't that much money in loans when i need a alternative...which would be gnomon...so my question is once again...is it hard to get accepted to gnomon?

The Chronicles I-X
they are coming, be ready

[brainpower]

heres one way to break it down... put what you got up on the chopping block right?
check out their student gallery,.... http://www.fullsail.com/fs1/ca/main.html
and check out ours...
http://www.gnomon3d.com/student\_gallery.html

that should be a pretty good indication. what does it all add up to in the end?
i put my money on the G spot.

[tokyostormdrain]

In reply to:
heres one way to break it down... put what you got up on the chopping block right?
check out their student gallery,.... http://www.fullsail.com/fs1/ca/main.html
and check out ours...
http://www.gnomon3d.com/student\_gallery.html

that should be a pretty good indication. what does it all add up to in the end?
i put my money on the G spot.

bladerunner,

That would be a very good point indeed, if that was any indication of CA students at Fullsail.

I don't mean to belittle your arguement. It's well structured and more mature than any I've seen at this site yet, but the sad and simple truth is that the Fullsail CA site hasn't been updated since summer 2000. Besides that, I've seen much better CA work come and go since that time, with no mention of anything ever being posted on their site.

I'd love to see it updated with some of the better work, but I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. It's a shame really. I think some of the work on Gnomon's galleries look great!

Perhaps in the future Fullsail will spend more time on posting student's new work to their website. That's one thing that I am sure needs to get done.

-FS_RAZ

[brainpower]

deffinatley RAZ, no belittlement taken. and that is a shame that no one is updating the FS web site.
i just though the arguents over hardware were a little old.
it sounds like gnomon and FS both, have older hardware and not quite enough of the new flashy stuff. the point is that MHZ dont measure the quality of eduaction when it comes time to send your demo reel out.
ill say this much more though, EVERYWHERE ive worked since being done with my gnomon education, there has been a gnomon grad and/or instructor on the team with me. we're everywhere.

[tokyostormdrain]

In reply to:
deffinatley RAZ, no belittlement taken. and that is a shame that no one is updating the FS web site.
i just though the arguents over hardware were a little old.
it sounds like gnomon and FS both, have older hardware and not quite enough of the new flashy stuff. the point is that MHZ dont measure the quality of eduaction when it comes time to send your demo reel out.
ill say this much more though, EVERYWHERE ive worked since being done with my gnomon education, there has been a gnomon grad and/or instructor on the team with me. we're everywhere.

bladerunner,

I agree with you 100%. MHz doesn't matter, it's the quality of the work that gets you noticed.

"ill say this much more though, EVERYWHERE ive worked since being done with my gnomon education, there has been a gnomon grad and/or instructor on the team with me. we're everywhere. "

To that I say simply this: excellent!

Wherever my travels take me, if I'm lucky enough to wind up sitting next to a Fullsail or Gnomon grad, I know I'm sitting next to experience.

Take it easy.

-FS_RAZ

[shapiro500]

I don't think Full Sail is as bad as some say. They do tell you things before you get there that are not true. Getting help or meeting with the instructors is very hard. In most cases the lab instructors are the people you need to talk to. Full Sail however bad it really is has an odd ability to change people for the better. Whether intended by the staff or by accident by the lack of ability,you learn as a student to look to yourself for the answer and not always run to a teacher or someone else for help all the time. It helps develop the ability to teach yourself what you need to know in an industry that changes faster than you can learn it. Another plus are the contacts you get and the friends you make. I can not and will not say I love the place but I also will not tell anyone not to go there. Despite the flaws, the animation program is still developing and in reality isn't all that bad.

[chris--5]

I know it