Irrisponsible Alias

[joojaa]

Well actualy those things go for all of us (look i dont live in the states so things are a bit different here) no matter if we are in a union or not (well the social security beingwhat it is here). But the point is you can go about your busines even within an union its just that they make it imposible for the employer to screw you. (not that i have any idea on how unions work in your end =) You cas till be an artist, and they hire you for that.

[ops]

I don't mean to come on too strong but this is absurd. If millions of 15 year-old school kids can do what do without your education then

A. your education was worthless

B. you have the artistic ability of an average 15 year-old school kid

I have been frequenting this board since it transformed in highend3d and one post has been said over and over - the tool isn't as important as artist working on it; and yet, when the tool reaches more people I see this thread pops up.

Can't AW do anything positive without having to hear endless whining.

[badcookie]

actually, no one is whining...
if you read this discussion you would see that most people are agreeing that its not a bad thing, and that no, 15 year olds can't do what we do.

thats the thing about news, it makes you think. and traditionally, in a forum you post your thoughts.

[ops]

If no one was whining this thread wouldn't exist.

This is a trend in here, more like a bad hapit. Anytime anything happens to maya - price drop, UI focused upgrade, features added, evaluation editions, rapid product upgrades, etc. - in come the slew of whiners, oh, sorry, I mean 'thinkers'.

Its annoying thats all. It was what turned me off to highend3d in the first place, and I am a little dissapointed to see that it is still firmly in place.

[badcookie]

" Anytime anything happens to maya - price drop, UI focused upgrade, features added, evaluation editions, rapid product upgrades, etc"

...

its talked about.

thats it.

sure there are whiners occasionaly, maybe often, but does that mean that no one should discuss what is on their minds? in the free world, people have opinions and express them, not excluding you obviously. and i didn't see this thread as an example of whining, until now unfortunately. sorry i'm contributing, i'll shut up now.

[mantrid]

hahaha. This is becomming quite a funny discussion. Look, if you don't wanna read peoples opinions, or their constructive criticsm, or their worries and anxieties, or their hopes and pleasures...then don't, no one forced ya. Besides, if you ain't interested in the future of OUR industry, get another job and stop "whining"

[jtk77]

right on!

[jtk77]

right on!
I'm telling you guys..8 weeks...welding school..make twice the money and have LOTS of work!

[mantrid]

Yeah, I have checked it out and it seems that welding is definately the new 'big thing'. A real developing industry. I even started work on some of my own 'plugins' for welding equipment...:

aluminium2copper v1.1 (welds two different materials (alum and copp)

volumeErode beta 2 (cleans the inside of pipes and other metallic geom by analysing the content of materials up to the metal surface and systematically removing them)

and my favourite :

lead2GoldTransformer combined with goldFlux. (special plugin for 'hotTorch 4.5')

[dollarman]

It is absolutly not Alias' responsiblilty to protect the jobs or wages of 3D artists. It's their job to make tools for 3D artists. And above that it's their job to make money and attempt to grow their company.

So who's responsible for the 3D artist? Him/herself! (unless there are any Unions or Government regulations I don't know of that may say otherwise )

And yeah, if your industry dies, you better be ready to retrain and find another one.

I'm with the welding dude. He really isn't joking. If 3D is a passion, one can always do it in their spare time.

DM

[joojaa]

Yeah if id wanted money id still be working at the paper mill today (mill workers have totaly ourageous wages due to the fact that a mill makes totaly outrageous amounts of money each minute its running, and there are only 5-6 people maning the damn thing, and wery strong union here too even the cleaninglaydy makes more money than me, no kidding)

[gmask]

If you want to blame anybody for weakening job security it should be computer manufactureres. Back when you had to buy an SGI that cost $50k you didn't have to worry about any kid capable of playing a video game stealling your job .

[joojaa]

Naah if you are intimidated by a bunch of kids then you clearly arent good enough. Besides there are alot of other things you could easily switch to if you so wish.

[gmask]

I was simply stating a fact not a fear. Back when you have to buy a seriously expensive workstation and there were not ten million schools you did not have to worry about the job market being flooded with cannon fodder.

Personally I should not have to worry with my 10 years of experience but that also does not mean that I can rest on my laurels either. Software has come a long way but I think it is the hardware that has really fueled and granted the ability for practically anybody to take a practicing interest in CG. Back then you could not casually get involved with highend CG.

Besides I cannot get a job at the local paper mill here and expect to make diddly squat...ther eis no local paper mill and factory job sint he US don't pay well last time I checked. otherwise I might reconsider my current line of work Maybe in another ten years I will have either become a millionaire and retire young or I will consider the welding thing

[fredc]

I don't think Maya PLE will change things more than the simple fact that more and more people have access to highend tools through free demo licenses or cheap student licenses ( or bootlegs) and most of all cheap hardware. They can get instruction in many highschools or take classes in art collegs all over the country/world.

It doesn't really matter if it is highschool kids or artists in their 20's and 30's. The fact is the 3D market is new and attracts more and more people all the time. Yes, people with talent and experience can still get work, but unfortunately, the "good enoughs" keep pecking away at the available jobs. You have to be better and willing to work for less money or job security than you use too. The secure and well paying jobs are becoming harder and harder to find.

I don't think we can really blame anyone here. Unless we want to blame others for wanting to be 3D artists too. Yes, we can say that only the truly talented belong here, but the reality is, there is always someone better than yourself. It is a realive scale..."Everyone better than you belongs and those that are not as good should get out."

One day, when 3D is as common as a paint brush and canvas, the market will probably correct itself, but for now it looks like we will have to wait a while while the appeal wears off. I don't personally think that is very far off, but it may take every kid in the US/World have had a chance to use these kinds of tools first.

Urp

[joojaa]

Hah, sure... Anyway youre right but no worries here. Besides i think we'll land on our feet anyway. By the way you donthave a 50+% tax rate there either

[gmask]

In past years I have paid around 35% taxes but I also don't have benefit of free health care or a dole and unemployment benefits are pretty much a joke as far as a living wage goes in a metropolitain area like LA . Fortunately when you freelance you can write off all sorts of things.. technically you could write off renting or going to see any movie that has CG in it as a educational expense

I truly feel that those who have fine arts training and other specialized training like engineering or computer science (programming) will be every more valuable than somebody with no secondary educational but alot of interest. However I am not saying that getting any of those degrees grants you the ability to get a job.. you still have to do some darn good work first.

Frankly I am interested to see what will come of this. I guess with the popularity of the internat the possible working job age has gotten very low for high tech. I could see many problems coming from this and well frankly very few if no benefits. .. will those kids now take care of their parents?? Anyway it may be to deep to discuss the possible socio political implications of dumping peopel who are too young into a job market... it's not good that's why we have child labor laws...

[joojaa]

Hmm lets see my tax rate (just the tax nothing else included like pension benefits) is about 48%, but thenagain the system is a bit different here.

[gmask]

Off the top of my head I don't remember what the percentage is for social security but there has been much debate about wether or not that system will collapse here and with the way inflation is headed I may beable to afford a shack in the boondocks when I retire

BTW.. I was talking to my girlfriend the other day about a friend of her's that got this awesome loft in New York by squatting. I allways had the impression that there was alot of that in the Netherlands and Holland but I guess the same goes for all of europe... is that true?

[joojaa]

Not much here, im afraid youll get killed that way when it gets -30 degrees ( thats -86 farenheit, i remember the coldes ive witnessed was something around -100 farenheit) outside, besides there arent much surplus on housing in the helsinki region anyway so theres nothing to squat in.