Maya 5 on Linux

[oran68]

.....Firstly; on zoorender; theres like 2 linux machines. 1 very new; newer than the rest; and one really old.
The newest one is right behind a 4 CPU SGI beast. You can't really count those results.

You did not understand. The reason why a quad system (SGI) is "slower" than the linux machine is that the tests were done using maya software which (I repeat) only uses 1 processor to do the pre-render calculations. In contrast the tests made with MR which fully support multiprocessing and multitheading show the SGI machine as the faster. This is the reason, my dear.

...If I read that right; one is running maya 4.5 (probably under the software renderer)
the other is running 5.01.

I don't think that alias made any sort of improvements of his render (Maya software render) in maya v5.01 so your critic is "unstable".

...Tell you what; things linux doesn't support or do very well:

1. DVD/CD burning

...No k3b really sucks (as you americans say)

1. dealing with a wide variety of media

....What do you mean? If you are referring to the streaming capabilities of linux, I think i you're wrong. If you've to do compositing and editing Linux and SGI copared to WinXP are like Lamborghini and Fiat 500 (very small and slow italian car). In fact for compositing and editing we use just Linux/SGI (Shake, Inferno,Flame, and Smoke for editing).

1. File browsers are typically slower
   With which filesystem?

2. Inconsistent package management accross distros. This is worked around by many but Red Hat still has yet to get the picture.

Well.. RedHat is not the only distro..Slack, Debian all have a good package management even if they are still far away from the super_efficiency of the BSDs system.

1. Lack of alot of software. This includes a good sound editor, video editor, a well known 2d editor like photoshop; 3d paint packages; and many plugins.

This depends on your familiarity with comp application. For example I can tell you that Shake can behave (even better) as a 2d editor substituting Photoshop. As for 3d paint pack I think Amazon paint is enough for all tastes (but not for all wallets :-)) . I agree for video editors (you have to switch to SGI if you want to do pro-editing).

[1000101-]

In reply to:You did not understand. The reason why a quad system (SGI) is "slower" than the linux machine is that the tests were done using maya software which (I repeat) only uses 1 processor to do the pre-render calculations. In contrast the tests made with MR which fully support multiprocessing and multitheading show the SGI machine as the faster. This is the reason, my dear.

Hrmm
who mentioned anything about SGI performance besides you?
I know a 4 CPU SGI machine would be quite and dandy fast. However we ARE NOT COMPARING CPU ARCHITECTURE HERE WE ARE COMPARING OPERATING SYSTEM PERFORMANCE. Please inform me when you've come back to our little discussion.

In reply to:
I don't think that alias made any sort of improvements of his render (Maya software render) in maya v5.01 so your critic is "unstable".

Okay. Well considering the renderer hadn't really been running on linux for very long in the 4.0 days it would stand to reason that the lesser performance is due to less optimizations. But hey! you said that the OS makes no difference and the only reason people use linux is because its free!
At any rate; I'm going to be using Mental Ray in my tests. I'll probably do it on a P4 2.8ghz system with a gig of RAM since my new motherboard isn't in yet.
I'll be using XP SP1 for the windows side and a Red hat 7.3 install for the linux side. If I find time I'll even test the 2.6.3 or 2.6.4 kernel as well. Hopefully by monday I'll hve some decent numbers.

Anyone who wants to test specifics and could pass me a scene that would be greatly appreciated.

In reply to:
....What do you mean? If you are referring to the streaming capabilities of linux, I think i you're wrong. If you've to do compositing and editing Linux and SGI copared to WinXP are like Lamborghini and Fiat 500 (very small and slow italian car). In fact for compositing and editing we use just Linux/SGI (Shake, Inferno,Flame, and Smoke for editing).

Thats great. Lets talk about the weakness on the desktop. Thats where that point was directed. But then you yourself said that the OS makes no difference in these things. I figured you would at least wait till I have some good numbers for you to look at.

In reply to:
Well.. RedHat is not the only distro..Slack, Debian all have a good package management even if they are still far away from the super_efficiency of the BSDs system.

dpkg and related tools are nice but its all still hokey for most end users to deal with. And what package management were you refering to from the BSD system?
Would it be one that you'd want average users mucking about in?
probably not.

In reply to:
This depends on your familiarity with comp application. For example I can tell you that Shake can behave (even better) as a 2d editor substituting Photoshop. As for 3d paint pack I think Amazon paint is enough for all tastes (but not for all wallets :-)) . I agree for video editors (you have to switch to SGI if you want to do pro-editing).

Theres a couple of compositors but just about everything else its seriously lacking. And from what I understand; Amazon Paint is nothing to really get misty eyed over. Talking to some folks I've learned that Body Paint and Dp3d have it pretty well beat.

That may explain its obscurity as well as high price.

I disagree with the "you have to switch to SGI to do pro editing" statement as well. Lots of folks seem to be doing good with Final Cut Pro (in the movie industry no less) and I'm sure Avid Xpress Pro will start coming up here soon as well.
Even big movie studios are hesitant to drop 60+ large on one of these IRIX based editing solutions.

[sagroth]

I'd specially set up Mandrake 9.2 for work in Maya 5.0 on my dual xeon server. And also I have XP Pro.

I'd tried the scene from Test Center here and got strange results: 59 secs in Linux and 49 in XP Pro.

Maybe I have smth wrong with my settings in linux... Just don't want to become disappointed with huge amount of time spent - I've already liked KDE Can anyone give an advice of improvement?

[user_deleted]

Updating KDE to 3.2.1 and the Linux kernel to 2.6.4 should improve your speed.

[vitor-hugo--2]

Greetings...

I have just busted in to the world of Linux and am totally stoked about building a Server/Workstation/RenderFarm with Mandrake and Maya. I've been toying around with RedHat but Mandrake is simply a lot friendlier. And it's Blue instead of Red.

so I'm a Maya poweruser VFX animator and I'm totally interested in any tips or specs you might have about the rendering oddities. 10 seconds is a bit much eh?

Also I'm was looking for Maya but don't know where to find her on the net... How do I find maya/shake/combustion for linux on the net?

Toast...

Garrett*~

[vitor-hugo--2]

Where to get Maya for Linux???

[sagroth]

There's no Combustion for Linux, as well as I know.

I'd found Maya & Shake in p2p.

[user_deleted]

Garrett and Sagroth,

Discussing where to aquire pirated software or use pirated software is not permitted at Highend. I suggest you refresh yourselves on the rules of the forum for this site. The Highend site is for working professionals or students new to the industry. It is not intended as a forum for piracy. If you want to use highend software legally then you either will have to pay for it like everyone else or use the demo versions such as MayaPLE or XSI-EXP. You can use free Linux programs such as Blender3D, Jashaka and Cinepaint with out any legal implication.

[1000101-]

on a side not I just need to install windows on my test machine and I'll have the ability to run some comparisons.
then maybe start doing some tweaking and so forth.

[user_deleted]

Russell,

That sounds great. Due to my current budget I'm holding off upgrading for another month. Still haven't decided what 64-bit proc I'll get though I have decided on SuSE Linux for my OS. Novell is releasing SuSE Pro 9.1 to contain both 32-bit and 64-bit CD/DVD installation discs.

http://www.suse.de/us/company/press/press\_...chive04/91.html

Do you know of a test for Shake comparing Linux and OSX? I haven't seen any online test sites for this software. I'm curious to see how each performs on their respective 64-bit systems.

[vitor-hugo--2]

Greetings again...

My apolagies Sagroth... It was not my intention to attract the negative and unproffesional accusation response of Dark Night. And most especially to have another trying to help labeled, suggested and slandered in such a negative way.

Also, my apolagies to you as well Dark Night. I had not perceived that my question of Maya for Linux was implied as a Piracy acquisition and would therefore would receive a Piracy and UnProffesionalism accusation towards myself or another. Your accusation has been taken in to consideration and noted however not properly justified as my question is not defined as such. Indeed it was not my intention to warrant the slanderously implied accusations of unproffesionalism and piracy from Dark Night and therefore you as well are excused of your inaccurate accusations concerning this misunderstanding resulting from the ambiguity of my inquiry.

Now that we are all straight and proffesional as we should be...

Any word on pricing for Maya Linux?

Also how about those render tests? I was thinking of building a Linux Cluster and will be doing some expermentation of my own...

Indeed I am still very excited about running Mandrake and Maya and can't wait to get started....

Cheers*!
~Garrett~

[deke-kincaid]

My apolagies Sagroth... It was not my intention to attract the negative and unproffesional accusation response of Dark Night. And most especially to have another trying to help labeled, suggested and slandered in such a negative way.

What exactly did you mean then when you asked "where can I download maya off the web"? because I have no idea how else it could be interpreted.

Any word on pricing for Maya Linux?

It's the same price as the windows/mac/irix versions. $2,000 for complete and $7,500 for Unlimited.

Also how about those render tests? I was thinking of building a Linux Cluster and will be doing some expermentation of my own...

If your refering to a cluster as in Beowulf cluster, then none of the render software I know of support this.

[vitor-hugo--2]

Well it seems as if you can download Maya 5 here:
http://store.aliaswavefront.com/dr/v2/ec\_M...&CACHE\_ID=0

Also inquiry in more detail as follows.
Linux has some General Public Liscense paradigm associated with it. Apparently there is no GPL version of Maya for Linux? GPL version of Maya Batch Renderer for Linux? Doubtful eh?

SUPERCLUSTER RENDER FARM
I think Maya Alias would want to cash in on big farms at major studios so they would see to it that their batch renderer was on a per cpu cost factor.

Indeed a Beowulf cluster is not possible for network rendering? What of Mandrake's Clustering solution? http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/clustering

Would a Beowulf cluster be of similar OS Architecture as HyperThreading? And if so does Linux's SMP Kernel support HyperThreading? If yes then it may be possible that someone could Hack the SMP Linux Kernel to serve a Beowulf cluster? Whoala! Render Farm? Maybe hardware issues likd FSB and Network Bandwidth?

Or is the only way to do it completley legal would be to have 1 legal seat on each maya box in a cluster and use a network render server software like the one included on Sourceforge? http://grender.sourceforge.net/ Indeed I think this architecture is akin to Mandrakes Cluster solution. Probobaly requiring a liscense for each box.

Brainstorm...

All comes down to money eh?

Toast*~
~Garrett~

[1000101-]

Your best bet to cluster is to use some form of 3rd party load balancing to send data to each machine.
Of course each CPU will have to be licensed. In the unlikely event your just going to use the maya software renderer though; (not mray) then you get like 20 thousand nodes with a maya complete purchase. Just contanct your reseller to get the magic license to run them.

[user_deleted]

RE:"My apolagies Sagroth... It was not my intention to attract the negative and unproffesional accusation response of Dark Night. And most especially to have another trying to help labeled, suggested and slandered in such a negative way.

Also, my apolagies to you as well Dark Night. I had not perceived that my question of Maya for Linux was implied as a Piracy acquisition and would therefore would receive a Piracy and UnProffesionalism accusation towards myself or another. Your accusation has been taken in to consideration and noted however not properly justified as my question is not defined as such."

Garrett,

I was just clarifying for you and Sagroth what this site is and the rules that members must obey if they wish to continue to have access to Highend. I think you need to look up the definition of piracy, professionalism and slander before using them in your posts. As Beaker had commented, how are we to take it any other way with comments such as yours? Example when you said "I'm a power user VFX animator" translates to an experienced Maya Artist and not one that thinks he can get Maya, Shake and Combustion off the Net or for free. If you really were who you portray you are then you would know that the software you asked about is only sold through the main developers Alias, Apple, Discreet and their authorized distributors. Maya for example can be legally downloaded from the Alias site only by Maintenance Customers who pay yearly fees for upgrades. The link you provided is for ordering Maya not downloading it. Maya Complete and Unlimted come in a boxed set and for the approx prices Russell already stated. It is not legal to distribute or use highend software such as Maya, Shake, Combustion, etc from P2P links as Sagroth stated "I found Maya & Shake on p2p". That's definately a no brain idea to come out and admit you use copywritten software from P2P.

It's up to the forum moderator or Admin to take the necessary action when dealing with members that violate forum policy. Though I'm getting a little fed up with people that state they are professional artists then turn around and ask where to get highend software off the Net. Piracy not only hurts the software developers but the industry as a whole.

[sagroth]

Well, I want to apologize also... Rules of different forums differs slightly I'd be more accurate in the future.

[sahil-bhardwaj]

I must say this has been the most informative resource concerning Maya on a Linux platform. I have considered it myself and have had the same concerns involving my needs as a CG artist. I'm a fairly intelligent man, however, I can not speak with confidence about any OS or their structure. The best I can do is go by hands on experience, theory, and common sense. For example: This reoccuring subject of speed coupled with rendering. The first thoughts that come to mind is that an OS acts as a communication tool crunching mathematical computations, assigning services and managing them, allocating resources, and more of the same idealisms. So, knowing that, how can an OS not be part of performance attributes such as speed? If half of what I said is at least true, than speed should be influenced by the OS. Sure, hardware plays a huge part in system performance, however, an OS utilizes those resources to carry out functions...so...Theory & the all around understanding of technological advancements would have me understand that an OS can be manufactured (compiled or whatever term properly fits) to carry out functions with more efficiency, stability, scalability and so on...

Common sense tells me this...and I don't mean this in a smart ass way....

To believe that something is one sided (such as rendering/hardware) is not a sound thought...nor did much thought go behind that statement. Hardware & Software work hand-in-hand with one another in attempt to act as a highend processing unit. We then compile tools to function on these processing units to carry out our demands...so...before bashing begins (which I might ad is useless & normally a sign of inaccurate information and brainless activity), perhaps it would be best to understand the content at hand.

[1000101-]

In reply to:3dbandit said:
I'm a fairly intelligent man

After reading your post I agree with you.

[grinch]

Is there any benchmark comparing Maya or other 3D application on Linux and Widnows?

Checking Zoorender, mental-ray render times, it seems that Maya renders faster on Windows:

00:55.73

Maya 5.0
Win Xp Sp1
DUAL XEON 3066 1MB Cache
1GB RAM
Dell Precision 450
By James Brad

01:03.58

Maya 5.1
Linux RH9 2.4.20-28.9smp
DUAL XEON 3066
2GB RAM
SUPERMICRO X5DPA-TGM-0
By Manuel Serena

I don't know if the mental-ray renderer differs in Maya 5.0 and 5.1. But those two workstations are not the same, regarding motherboard and RAM speed, I've heard that brand name systems such as Dell are more efficent comparing to home-built ones.

But still the Linux system has 2GB memory and the Windows system has 1GB, which, if I'm right, Mental-ray stores the pre-render calculation data on memory for faster access time, and more memory should help with reducing overall render time.

So what had caused the Linux to render slower? Given the fact that we all agree that Linux has a better memory management, thou I havent found any benchmark comparing the two OS.

Michael

[deke-kincaid]

Do both of those have the same size cache? L2 cache makes a big difference with Mental Ray(512k vs a 1meg). Also a plain vanilla Red hat install is by no way tuned for graphics work. Switching to 2.6 kernel and doing a custom kernel install(RH has a bunch of junk default compiled in there that you dont even need like ISDN and hundreds of other junk drivers that you dont even need), NPTL(Native Posix Thread Libraries), turning on hdparm(32 bit access/UMA/caching isnt even on by default for hard drives on RH, etc... Also compiling X and kde/gnome for your processor rather than generic i686 or i386 greatly speeds up everything. Red hat is more made as a generic distribution, like XP Home rather than XP Pro.

After I finish this current project Im working on I'm going to try doing some speed tests between Linux and XP pro. I have a really nicely configured Gentoo system at work that I tuned to the bone. I will do the tests between maya and shake on both platforms. Unfortunatly I can't test XSI(experience) right now thought because I compiled Gentoo with glibc 2.3 and currently XSI is only compatible with 2.2. Hopefully XSI 4.0 will remedy this.