Shake Members

[user_deleted]

I would also like to see a forum catreing to pipeline/multipass issues. Also kids with cracked copies of shake would have no reason or desire to post there.

[deke-kincaid]

I don't think there are enough posts on this forum alone to justify a second one.

[joojaa]

hmm guess that explains why theres so much noise whan all posts are noise.

Your right ofccourse, but whatabout "make it and they will come?", But realy if you want innowative duscussions you must be willing to start one.

[user_deleted]

There arent enough posts because there is no piont in posting. Why? Because professionals stay away. Why? Because there is no point in posting. See the visious cirle?

My suggestion is to split the forum in two. One forum for general shake discussions and one advanced forum. A simple online multiple choice test would be required for subscription to the advanced forum with questions like. "what does the little yellow C mean on color icons".

Is this workable?

[user_deleted]

QUOTE(mikemarcus @ 11/20/05, 07:35 AM)
There arent enough posts because there is no piont in posting. Why? Because professionals stay away. Why? Because there is no point in posting. See the visious cirle?

My suggestion is to split the forum in two. One forum for general shake discussions and one advanced forum. A simple online multiple choice test would be required for subscription to the advanced forum with questions like. "what does the little yellow C mean on color icons".

Is this workable?
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the only remaining 'professional resource' is the shake mailing list, hosted by highend3d.

yes, we old farts still use email.

and we have read the manual.

and we don't answer questions that can be easily answered by reading the manual.

and we've bought our software, and pay our maintenance

so if a question sounds like it's coming from someone who can't figure out how to use a crack, it's not too likely that we're going to answer it.

[joojaa]

Yes well thets a spiffy thing... thing is tough the door swings both ways! BTW so have i but i can asume theres alot of pople with accews to shake in one form or another that try to learn it duing their spare time... And a lot fo cracked versuons too.

Its just that not all askesrs are comp people, sonce even good 3d artist should keep up with how their comositors work.

[user_deleted]

I've been reading this column with great interest and I would personally like to say something on behalf of newbies like myself.

I work for a company and I have a fully bought copy of Shake4 on the mac, with manuals and then some. The only reason I have this is because I first evaluated it on the pc with version 2.51.

I completely sympathise with all the experts and fully experienced Shake artists having to wade through a lot of noise on this forum, but I have to say that I have put on a couple of annoying posts myself with regards to tracking and such. That's because the manuals sometimes don't tell you how to fix a problem when it goes wrong and I just don't have the experience to know what is wrong. Maybe a year or two down the line I can look back and laugh at how stupid I am right now but you guys are a vast source of information and help for a spoon like me.

I don't know about the other newbies but you guys get a lot of respect from me and I appreciate all the help I get from you. Creating a seperate forum for professionals may not actually solve the problem and it would be a great shame for me to miss out on learning from someone else's problem.

iki

[joojaa]

Agreed... aslo its not like the noise on the shake board is high.... try to follow aANY maya board for a week or too... NOW that noise is HIGH!

Anyway the mailinglist is fine too offocurse.

[user_deleted]

Iki

I for one dont think that you are stupid, or a "spoon" because you are a nubie. I fully welcome your addition to our industry and will help you with any questions that you have which go beond the scope of the manual. It isnt people like you who chase away the preofessionals, its people who ask questions like "how do I amimate a gaussian blur?" and "why does shake not have photoshops levels tool?" (both of these have been asked).

It isnt so much that I have to wade through the niose, its more that the people who are at the level of being to be able to answer my questions just dont visit the forum. I can only assume that like me, they just got pissed off with telling people to RTFM.

I had no idea that the mailing list was still active. I have been subscribed for 2 or 3 years and possibly recieved 2 emails in that time.

[joojaa]

Actualy the why does shake not have a levels tool is a valid question, that not in the manual. Im feeling tough it was handled a bit badly, even form my side. THe fact that he didnt underatand it isnt.

I mena thing is the user should have been told taht theres nothing fundamental about level better. And that he shoudl check whats fundamental. But the fact that he could bother to think about this after repetedly being told theres nothing special about levels IS a problem (but ist a problem allways). the asker was wery much ithinking ina limitted capacity.

But since it was the corenrstone of heis imagemanipulation pipe it was hard for him to usnerstand. It related this theread, its a bout inexperience. And the fact that in his culture it WAS the tool of choice, but he never bothered to think what compounfd function levels is.

A active topic that relates to the problem herein:

http://www.highend3d.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=215420

Thet said you dont need to save everyone. Besides everyone of us is offer of this problem every now and then, because of our reinforced habits. ITs sometimes hard to tell people thir age old ways are infact not what they tought they were. Anyway i can se your point things like this often infuriate... its hard to best people who arent ready for the answer.

Should there be a how to get most out of aswers faq to allievate problems like this. Anyway this is much distilled the problem ON all forums

[user_deleted]

Hi Mike,

Thank you very much for your response and I do fully understand your predicament. I understand because I have been working in the 3D industry for a very VERY long time and I have had the same problems with the kind of questions you speak of with Maya, Softimage and so forth. All you guys know about the Maya forums. You have to wade through a kingdom of nonesense before you get to something decent. Over the years it has definitely gotten worse and it has already been mentioned that it's due to the popularity of the industry and also the price of machines and software now available on the market.

I hope you guys will still interact with each other on here as I have been to a few other Shake forums and they definitely do seem to be somekind of Phantom Zones. At least there's somekind of action going on here.

Thanks for understanding.

Iki

[deke-kincaid]

QUOTE(mikemarcus @ 11/21/05, 05:55 AM)
I had no idea that the mailing list was still active. I have been subscribed for 2 or 3 years and possibly recieved 2 emails in that time.
You must have changed email or accidentaly unsubscribed. It is not a very active list, but there are still atleast 40-50 posts a month. It has a fairly low noise factor and usually pretty good answers to questions.

[user_deleted]

QUOTE(beaker @ 11/24/05, 05:15 AM)
You must have changed email or accidentaly unsubscribed.  It is not a very active list, but there are still atleast 40-50 posts a month.  It has a fairly low noise factor and usually pretty good answers to questions.
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Ok, so I tried to subscribe again - 3 times. Each time I recieved the following email from the listserver.

CODE

appsub shake technonomad@yahoo.com
Invalid number of parameters.

439BE397:1D73.1:funxr
Unknown command.

Is this because I am already subscribed maybe (even though I do not recieve emails)?

[user_deleted]

Where can I suscribe to shake mailling list ??

Also the problem with Shake is to find someone which is really an expert. Once I wanted to know who can help me out with the SDK, I asked one guy selling Apple stuff at a fair. he told me I would be the only one using the SDK in Switzerland.

I have learned Shake myself, but sometimes you have very advanced question, and it's quite dificult to find someone to help you out.

[user_deleted]

I messaged you off board about this

[deke-kincaid]

QUOTE(mikemarcus @ 12/11/05, 12:38 AM)
Ok, so I tried to subscribe again - 3 times. Each time I recieved the following email from the listserver.

CODE

appsub shake technonomad@yahoo.com
Invalid number of parameters.

439BE397:1D73.1:funxr
Unknown command.

Is this because I am already subscribed maybe (even though I do not recieve emails)?
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Do me a favor and post this on the highend3d bugs forum.

[user_deleted]

I have not been on the Shake forums reading post for a while now. I have been posting some new scripts but not really veiwing what people have been talking about.

I am on some elite websites for developers and this is what I recommend for the Newbie / Pro Forum.

1. I suggest that if a pro wants to part of a pro forum with great support that they should have to some how meet some requirments to be a part of that form. Maybe 100 question randomized test of questions or some type or proof of purchase of the software to get in.

Also, there should be strict rules for the posting, and maybe a newbies section builtin. A Gernal Discussion Area, then a Production Problems area (only post if you are working in the industry type section) ... and the moderators would be responcible for removing newbie posts or banning newbies to that section.

Also, make the Pro forum be referral only forum opposed to open to the public.

1. As for the site layout, some mentioned that the site is all pretty and everything but has a serios navigation problem. It takes 3 clicks to many to get to the forums.

[user_deleted]

I really want the newbies who are actually serious about being compositors to feel welcome. I want them to benefit from our knowlege and become great at their job. This benefits me when I try to find staff and the whole industry in general. I dont want to exclude them from any forum. I just want to get rid of the morons who havent got the interest or the inclination to read the manual or buy a couple of books.

How do we do that?

[user_deleted]

i like what mikemarcus has to say!

I am a Shake newbie, but that doesn't mean i'm not experienced - I've been editing for nearly 2 decades and its only recently that i have been able to start trying to learn the tools that i've wanted to use for years. Forums like this are exactly what many learners need, especially when dealing with complex, high-end tools that relatively few people have a good knowledge about.

Read the books, read the manuals, ask when you are confused about something and above all - respect the help and advice that your peers are offering.

who knows...one of these days I may have enough knowledge to risk applying for a job with you mike!

[joojaa]

mikes right! But heres a additional point who exactly is going to decide who konws enough? I mena you might meiss some serious talent by exlusion.

Im afraid if you wnat to ask questions, and wahnt good aswers the thing starts with yourself. If you cant be bothered to asnwer then theres one less left to answer thus not enough good asweres and then agian no point in asking.

Offcourse good comes with bad.

Not using the forums is choise.