3d Illustrations For Print Only

[pendragon]

Hi,

I'm very new to the world of 3D graphics. I'm currently studying computer graphics in a Jr. college in Las Vegas and planning on transfering to a 4 year university / art school in California soon.
I'm interested in being an illustrator, doing (almost) exclusively digital illustrations, with 2D and 3D software.

I'm looking for a school that would teach me high end 3D that's NOT meant entirely for animation!
Right now it seems impossible, because after some research i found out that the only majors close to what I want are taught only for 3D animation programs.

There is a whole world of 3D visualizations in the print world right now, so how come nobody teaches it for illustration majors?!

and if there is a school that does (in the west coast area), can anybody recommend me one?

thanks

Amir

[joojaa]

Well as a general rule of thumb theres no idea in giving 4 year majors into this. Because:

Modeling is the same as for animation, so the two are interchangeable, modelling on the other hand is not something youd build your entire curriculum on (because its more on practice than anything esle)

High end modeling is dealt by industrial design programmes, which would at least mostly carter your needs far better. And i must say that no animation program even touches this.

Threes not much future in that, although stuff like this used t pay the bills very well in the past thats no longer the case, unless you happen to live in India. But partly theres no point in building a programme just centered on this in the west.

So to reacap, its not something they could deeply integrate into one area, so your best bet would be to major in illustration wich probably nowdays automatically encompasses 3d aswell. Because nearly every degree form architecture to electric engineering does incorporate how to do 3d modelling so yu should resally focus more on the ideas behind how to design well and not so much into how the tools work. Youll be wexpected to be able to pick up any tool in matter of moths anyway.

Theres no point in educating yourself into becoming a JAFA (just another fucking artist) but rather into something thats so encompassing that you can move into anything you choose.

PS the main problem with this line of work is that any one of us has allready done this for a while and we can easily do this aswell if need be. So youd need to be able t do it very quickly at almost no cost. So in many ways this sort of stuff is more about how you can organize yoru production pipe.

[pendragon]

Thanks for the advice, though I disagree on a few things.

There's not much future in 3D visualization and illustration? c'mon now.
Just by the way majors are set up now I can tell most people who will do high end 3D works are not going to be illustrators but in the VFX, animation or industrial design industries.

I find it very discouraging that you think Illustrators are JAFAs.
What do you mean by "something thats so encompassing that you can move into anything you choose." like what?

QUOTE
PS the main problem with this line of work is that any one of us has allready done this for a while and we can easily do this aswell if need be. So youd need to be able t do it very quickly at almost no cost. So in many ways this sort of stuff is more about how you can organize yoru production pipe.
^ Isn't that a risk for any artist in the 3D industries really?

[joojaa]

QUOTE(leo00o83 @ 01/15/07, 08:37 PM) [snapback]257240[/snapback]
There's not much future in 3D visualization and illustration? c'mon now.
Just by the way majors are set up now I can tell most people who will do high end 3D works are not going to be illustrators but in the VFX, animation or industrial design industries.

Exactly, partly because it sounds more glamorous and partly because here more job to dot, therees no job in stuff thet everyone can do, i mean every engineer on the planet can nowadays produce a photoreal image of what they did with their tools. However they dont do aesthetic modeling.

Thats the sole realm of industrial designers, which just after concept artists who rarely have time to do 3d for other than quick reference, are exactly what your asking for. The education into how things are made is readily translated into 3d apps. So theres no need to have a redundant in middle of theese 2 dichiplines education. Maybe form other than pure we want your money, education point. Which sadly is what 50% of all 3d educations out there are!

I see no reason why a education aimed for a concept artoist wouldt teach 3d, or a line about pure illustration either. THis means theres no idea in including something thats allready inherently included into ne package. Its a tool not a focus of its own.

QUOTE
I find it very discouraging that you think Illustrators are JAFAs.
What do you mean by "something thats so encompassing that you can move into anything you choose." like what?

Well the way your pushing for it it would be thats why you should go and get education in just drawn illustration pure and simple. The fact of the metter is the 3d talent you need to do the pictures for the illustration is actually very easily thaght out to you in 6 months time. So thets why theres no point in making a full line of stuff based solely on this. If your good you'll never progress beyond this level except out of pure interest if your not thetn theres nothing that 3d can redeem you with.

Now animation thats about 10 forld in complexity so theres actualy room for that as a separate study

Manly because the traditional art skills make you a valuable idea pusher whereas taking course into how the 3d is done only lengthens your cycle. Theres market for idea designers in the future. But theres no western market for full fledged finalization for a foreseeable very near future. UNless your better then 99% of people on earth. And unfrtunately theres no school that can teach you this.

Actually if you work on a so limited market that you can forge the stuff yourself but see theres no schools that can teach this because as soon as they do they kill the niche.

THing is nearly every nerd in the world can model whatever you have drawn. Sure its a complimentary skill, but its allready included into those packages. Its no longer a luxury product ist its something you need to have at no added value.

Now the problem with 3d illustration is that its a by product of many work flows, sure some do it as a work today, your targeting future. Herein lies the big problem of this work also, because its done on computers it can be trasfeered isntantly across the globe wich means someone will do the talk with the customer draw the rough sketches. But im not expecting them to modell it, im expecting them to submit the ideas to soem other low cost worker across the globe and then get the rendered image back in time for the next meeting.

Or alternatively as a designer for very good quality astethic manufacurable goods. IWch is probebly the most reverding of them all

Howevre why 3d aimation, well the sheer bulk of things that need to click if you have everything working here your way is still not finished.

Theres a small niche market for 3d sculptors too tough.

PS. No its not a risk its FACT of life, but a animator is so much more involved they might have a bit more grace time. Not that theres any market for that in the west in 10 years time either, unless again theres a realy strong design in place. Design is not equal to how well you can use the software.

Your standing now you should have been running 5 years ago. Thing is only a broad spectrum training will help you catch up. A focused one will make you very vulnerable to this.

[joojaa]

Oh mind you im not talking you couldn't succeed. Im talking about why there is no dedicated major line for this to study. Because to have a line you need to make sure theres actualy a eorking ground for them. YOu dont make a line liek this with one persons aspirations,

By the way when i started out 3d sparsely anybody knew anything about it. So tae whats closest and do the rst of the way yourself.

[pendragon]

So if I understand you correctly, Product visualization in 3D is already taken by industrial designers.
That's what they do, so there's no reason to get illustrators for that. OK.

Thing is, there's still an enormous demand for illustrators, but almost all of their work is NOT in 3D. What Illustrators are trained for in Illustration schools for stills is far greater in capacity than what other 3D artists are trained for in other degrees for other industries.

Studying 3D with all its technical riffraff is a 6 month thing, according to you and others that told me so, but coming up with the visual from research and imagination is probably most of the 4 years duration in a BFA.

By the way, I know i was confusing in my first post, making you think that I wanted a degree only for 3D illustration --- that's not what I meant, what I meant was an Illustration degree with all its traditional aspects and also 3D as tool among all the others - painting, drawing, digitally painting, etc --- and to be able to focus on 1 tool, 3D, as the main tool of focus but retaining all the training from a BFA in illustration.

[joojaa]

QUOTE(leo00o83 @ 01/24/07, 07:39 PM) [snapback]257996[/snapback]
Thing is, there's still an enormous demand for illustrators, but almost all of their work is NOT in 3D. What Illustrators are trained for in Illustration schools for stills is far greater in capacity than what other 3D artists are trained for in other degrees for other industries.

Yes, but in 2d, theres a reason for this, a good illustrator can paint a decent concept picture in day or 2, now the 3d toolset is faar slower to yield the result. So you will be loosing your business for 2d illustrators. Because youd need to do 2 steps furter than they do (youd need to do a 2d picture and a 3d one), or do the same image over and over.

Now then theres a reason why theis extra overhed is acceptable in stuff like animation, its essentaly a description for how to do it over and over again. So the time investment don't beat the one picture time but if you need a 1000 from different angles it will. So ewssentialy if 3d is yoru gimic you will be asked to animate it sooner or later. THATS why a 3d major would do animation, that might not be his focus but its part of the service thet mostly what the client expects.

And you'd be surprised how many illustrators actually know how to use 3D its just that they have much more appealing quality the way they work now. Also any 3d animator could do illustrations they do have the education and aptitude mostly it don't change facts here.

But don't expect to be handed alot of architectural visualization stuff or engineering one. Unless you actually concentrated on rendering wich is a technical pursuit not a artistic one. Thets because architects and techs already do their own renders (but on the otherhand they do appreciate good rendering tools and cinematic skill). This si a job that starts to flow into their business so they will no longer need external doers just fet the ideas.

3d inst inheritedly better than 2d its just faster to use massed quantities of slight variations oif a picture with it, wich akes it suiteble for animation. Thing is if you can push down the production time to drawing level your doing a not so custom job, something like poser does exsist and everybody can do poser porn, or stuff like thet. The easier it get the more narow the life of a pure 3d illustrator gets.

Get a very widfe education then focus, theres no idea in focusing too tightly at this day and age.

QUOTE
By the way, I know i was confusing in my first post, making you think that I wanted a degree only for 3D illustration --- that's not what I meant, what I meant was an Illustration degree with all its traditional aspects and also 3D as tool among all the others - painting, drawing, digitally painting, etc --- and to be able to focus on 1 tool, 3D, as the main tool of focus but retaining all the training from a BFA in illustration.

last time i heard of anyone of my freinds comming out of a illustration school they allready had this in the base degree. BEFORE specialisation