Cluster problem

[giedi]

I have a big problem here that I and a few other guys weren't able to fix.
When you select a group node and apply a cluster to it, the pivot point of the children become unusable (it doesn't move with the object anymore) and I have to animate those objects but I can't.
Is there a user here who knows how to solve the problem?
Thanks for your help
Respectfully

David

[gmask]

Did you try parenting the cluster to the object you are moving?

g

[giedi]

Thanks for your reply gmask, but I've already tried this solution without success. Maybe if I give you an example, you'll understand my problem better.
Create a sphere and a cube, parent the cube to the sphere.
Select the group node an create a cluster ( relative on). Now, parent the cluster to the group node.
At this point, if you check the cube's pivot point, you'll see that it's not moving anymore so if for example you animate a transformation on the cluster, you can't animate the cube anymore because of its pivot point.

With this easy example, you should be able to understand the exact nature of the issue.
Do you see a way to keep the cube's pivot point centered and moving and still being influenced by the cluster.

I appreciate your help

Tank you

[flipnap]

I had a similar problem, kind of like a double transformation, and a guy here at work showed me a little something i missed. In the attribues editor, in the cluster attributes theres a check box for 'relative'. Which keeps the clusters in line with translation of the rest of the stuff.. Anyway, goodluck

[giedi]

Thanks for your reply, but if you check my message, I am already using the relative setting for the cluster.
Wether your cluster setting is set to relative or not, it doesn't change the fact that the cube's pivot point isn't moving with the cube. I figure there might be a way to cheat, so I tried several methods , but there was always something wrong.

I'm desperate cause I have to find a solution soon.

[flipnap]

your right, sorry i missed that. I guess my next question would be, why do you need to create a cluster for such a simple operation? Why dont you just group the two together instead of messing with deformations (especially if your not planning on deforming anything), the purpose of cluster deformations are not to move entire objects but to, well, deform peices of that object. for example, you make a cluster for points on a face for facial expressions to create blend shapes. If you moved your cluster for, lets say the cheeks, aand the pivot point for the entire head moved with it, it wouldnt be a good thing. thats why your pivots are staying planted.

[giedi]

Hi
Thanks again for your help.
The cube and sphere example was just a very simple example of my problem. My real group node is completely different. I Have a poly head, and I use this cluster to deform the neck (I used paint cluster weights tool to create the map).
I have nurbs teeth and eyes grouped to the poly head and influenced by the cluster too. So when you rotate the cluster, everything rotates (eyes and teeth too).
But How do I animate the teeth, now that its pivot point is not moving anymore.

I don't know if I made myself clear, but I hope you will get my problem.
Usually, people would use a skeleton for that type of animation, but I didn't.

Thanks for your time

David

[flipnap]

okay i got you. now you know why people usually use skeletons for that kind of stuff. Sounds like your going about setting up your head in a very bad way. Generally, if your moving the entire head with a cluster, its probably not a good idea. again, clusters are good for isolated sections or specific purposes other than what your doing. you need to group all your head parts, bind them to a skeleton with a jaw joint, group the bottom teeth to the jaw joint and paint weights for the jaw skin to the jaw joint. the top teeth will stay put as they have been weighted to the top head, and the bottom teeth will move with the jaw joint, the jaw skin will keep nicely put with the jaw joint if you weight it correctly. This is all a pretty straight forward setup. Why arent you using a skeleton? Is there some kind of restriction as to why you wouldnt be using joints as a deformer instead of cluster?

[giedi]

I usually use a skeleton for my character animation, but in this case I didn't because I only have a face and the shoulders and I wanted to avoid the usual hassle of character setup. As for using a skeleton now, I know since the beginning that it would be an option but in this case, I have a month of keyframing work on the cluster.
Therefore if I could find a way to keep my cluster, I wouldn't lose my work. If not, do you see a way to transfer my keyframes to a skeleton?