Global Scale Values

[sklnner]

hello,
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QUESTION:
is there a setting that will enable global scale values for all objects so i can get information about their size differences and why is that not set by default?
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explaining the problem:
i draw a surface in maya 8.0 using: surfaces > create a nurbs plane on the grid
i want to give the surface specific proportions so i check the surface's attibutes in order to change them:
attribute editor > ([*nurbs plane] tab) > transform attributes > scale

i see that every side of the surface has taken the value of 1.000
but the sides of the surface are not equal and i have no information about their scale difference
so i can not proceed with giving it the specific proportions i want by changing the scale values

also, i might also draw another surface which maybe i would like it to be four times bigger than the first without duplicating the first
again the attribute editor gives the 1.000 value for all its sides while different than the fist surface
so i have no informaton about the scale difference between the two objects and therefore i can not proceed

thank you very much for your time, i hope i was clear as to what my problem is

[christianmassyn]

The scale is you get from the attribute editor is the scale of the whole object. When you freeze the object or just after the objcet has been made this value will always be one and does not have any thing to do with how big it really is

[sklnner]

QUOTE(Christian_M @ 11/24/08, 12:32 AM) [snapback]295805[/snapback]
The scale is you get from the attribute editor is the scale of the whole object. When you freeze the object or just after the objcet has been made this value will always be one and does not have any thing to do with how big it really is

thnx for the reply,
now i understand that scale doesn't have anything to do with (theoritical) size
but that doesn't help me a lot, i still have my problem
how can i get information about the size of objects, how can i compare them?

[joojaa]

Scale is not the one you are after. When you initially create a plane theres a thing called history that tells how something is created, click in the inputs section and expand the create whatever and youll see it has width and height.

However the situation is morwe complex than that:

Trasforms describe the relation fo object coordinate systems so if you put scae 2 it jut says its 2times as big in size as the previous inherited coordinate system.

QUOTE
now i understand that scale doesn't have anything to do with (theoritical) size

Well appart form the fact that there isnt really anything real so theres no size either. Its constructed a bit upside down of what you think of. The problem is easy to avoid alltogether once you fix one of the values you think to use.

So you CAN have the scale values reflect the real world size, halfsize or just any relatve size you want. What is important is the realation fo the objects local transform versus its stack. What you do is make sure your local scale is known and fixed to 1 and then scale reflects the real size. But as said earlier untill you get into how the coordinate stack unravels its best to work on the actual local data.

QUOTE
how can i get information about the size of objects, how can i compare them?

Well you can simply ask for the computed output. its a bit tricky as theres n way to all knowingly compare 2 things thisway because how do you compare a cone to a box? (2 dimensions is esier theres only 3 things you can compare per singular topology, in 3 yo get 9 things to compare. Offcourse since topology is never just one singular entry it gets complex really fast)

So the real question remains what do you compare? volume? area? projected distance? distance? projected area? Edge Length?

(edge length is easy just ask for the realworld bouindingbox or sampel corner points)

QUOTE
why is that not set by default?

Because it couldn't tell us anything useful. All data is relative to their set components. If you think world is rigid dont touch the scae attribute of transforms. Because it does stuff you really can not do in reality.

[sklnner]

sorry for being late, unfortunately i couldn't understand some of the things you wrote, you wrote very "freely"

QUOTE(Joojaa @ 11/25/08, 06:29 AM) [snapback]295872[/snapback]
So you CAN have the scale values reflect the real world size, halfsize or just any relatve size you want. What is important is the realation fo the objects local transform versus its stack. What you do is make sure your local scale is known and fixed to 1 and then scale reflects the real size. But as said earlier untill you get into how the coordinate stack unravels its best to work on the actual local data.
Well you can simply ask for the computed output. its a bit tricky as theres n way to all knowingly compare 2 things thisway because how do you compare a cone to a box? (2 dimensions is esier theres only 3 things you can compare per singular topology, in 3 yo get 9 things to compare. Offcourse since topology is never just one singular entry it gets complex really fast)
So the real question remains what do you compare? volume? area? projected distance? distance? projected area? Edge Length?

i don't know how you got confused with cones and and boxes, volumes etc
we always compare their bounding boxes' edges
and that's the information i need
QUOTE(Joojaa @ 11/25/08, 06:29 AM) [snapback]295872[/snapback]
(edge length is easy just ask for the realworld bouindingbox or sampel corner points)

if by edge length you mean the length of the side of the object's bounding box, yes this is what i want
could you explain a little better what you mean by "just ask for the realworld bounding box or sample corner points"?
could you direct me specifically to some menu in maya? im kind of, new
QUOTE(Joojaa @ 11/25/08, 06:29 AM) [snapback]295872[/snapback]
What you do is make sure your local scale is known and fixed to 1 and then scale reflects the real size. But as said earlier untill you get into how the coordinate stack unravels its best to work on the actual local data.

yea, to keep the local scale fixed to 1.000 is the way i tried in some occasions
but, the plane objects i wrote about, was just a simple example in order to be clear about what im looking for
solving just this occasion by working with 1.000 local scale doesn't mean anything

lets say, i have 2 objects (two 1x1 cubes, one on top of the other) that i want to group
the value i need to have, is that the group object (its bounding box really) will have these proportions: 1.000x1.000x2.000
(of course again the problem is not the two cubes but something more complex that i can't calculate myself easily, for example one of the cubes is rotated randomly)
QUOTE(Joojaa @ 11/25/08, 06:29 AM) [snapback]295872[/snapback]
Because it couldn't tell us anything useful. All data is relative to their set components. If you think world is rigid dont touch the scae attribute of transforms. Because it does stuff you really can not do in reality.

i don't understand what you mean here
how do you mean that this information couldn't tell us anything useful?
what do you mean it does stuff you really can not do in reality?

every cad program provides this information on the fly
live, as you draw it gives you the proportions of what you create
why is it useful in cad/cam and not in maya?
or are you saying something else?
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edit:
finally after getting some help in other forums, i realised that the universal manipulator tool gives me the information i need, i hadn't noticed that the values shown by this tool is not scale values, but the ones im looking for
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thnx a lot