Hard Surface Modeling Books / Tuts

[user_deleted]

I'm looking for some good hard surface modeling tutorials and books. I would place myself at upper-intermediate skill level, but I really feel I could use some new ideas to speed my workflow. Maya for Games by Michael Ingrassia looks interesting, but I need to check it out in a bookstore before getting it to make sure there's enough that would be of use for hi-poly modeling.

I see TONS of tutorials and books on character modeling and a good deal of nurbs modeling stuff out there, but not too much on advanced poly modeling for hard surfaces.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks

kj

[goldmember]

I've lost count of how many tutorials I've seen and they all play it safe. simple shapes that most could make & bevel without help. If the subject model had any awkward pieces, they were skipped...

What I would give for an advanced guide on complex/difficult topology.

Maybe its just a case of experimentation & luck?

[joojaa]

QUOTE(GoldMember @ 06/04/09, 08:04 AM) [snapback]308881[/snapback]
What I would give for an advanced guide on complex/difficult topology.

Well there's a few things here, they do teach this out but on 3-4 year university courses. Not exactly something you can fit into one tutorial, most of the very advanced stuff is described in maths textbooks. But theres a second factor at play.

Theres a quite big number of basic shape problems out there, and any complex problem is many simple problems in disguise. Describing even a smallfraction of advanced problems would miss any of the real uses youd have by a mile.

QUOTE(GoldMember @ 06/04/09, 08:04 AM) [snapback]308881[/snapback]
Maybe its just a case of experimentation & luck?

Partially, experimentation is what you should do every day for the next 50 years. But many of the problems can be reasoned out. Its just that nobody can teach you reason, you will gain that with enough experience in experimentation. Unbfrtunately they cant teach you local intelligence, that will grow out of yourself as long as you persist on one subject.

So what i would suggest is you mking a list of 10 uses for EVERY menu item in maya. I must say this exercice don about 7 years ago made much more confident in my maya use. Tough i confess I had hard time comming up with 10 really different uses for file > new... (surprisingly not so much for file save, which is a excellent modeling tool by the way)

[goldmember]

QUOTE(Joojaa @ 06/03/09, 09:39 PM) [snapback]308885[/snapback]
So what i would suggest is you mking a list of 10 uses for EVERY menu item in maya. I must say this exercice don about 7 years ago made much more confident in my maya use. Tough i confess I had hard time comming up with 10 really different uses for file > new... (surprisingly not so much for file save, which is a excellent modeling tool by the way)
The File options were my first thought too. I just cant believe there can be 10 different uses for File > Save, let alone File > New. but I guess it depends on how different each use has to be.

eg.

File > New Scene

Reset Maya to its initial state.

Reset the Persp Camera to its default position. (same as above?)

Flush unwanted data.

Start a new Scene.

[li]Start a new Component. (same as above?)

Though, if I look at the options for the command, it opens up more possibilities, such as:

[/li][li]Set/disable the default Scene.[/li][li]Change the default Unit of measurement.[/li][li]Change the default Framerate.[/li][li]Enable/Disable the compass under the Viewcube.[/li][li]Change the default angle of North.[/li][li]Change the default Time slider range settings.[/li]Is that how you mean?, or must the different uses be radically unique & serve a very useful purpose in the real world, as a means to an end, rather than specific options?

Regardless. I learned a LOT just from doing this. wish I knew a few of these options existed a while back, instead of manually editing my userPrefs file to set a 1-5000 playback range, since the range set in Window > Settings/Preferences > Preferences: Settings > Time Slider, does not remember between sessions.

Just discovered the Incremental save feature too! though I dont understand how File > Save Scene could be a useful modeling tool.

I'll have to give this a go.

I think I understand what you mean on the whole tho, its hard to teach but with enough practice and experimentation, it will come to you. Still, I'm sure that seeing a video of an experienced modeler in action, tackling these difficult objects, would accellerate my learning tremendously!

Thanks yet again, Joojaa.

Well, it kinda feels like I hijacked this thread, but if I find/remember any useful Hard surface training material, I'll be sure to post it here.

[user_deleted]

Well, I'd have to say that file > save is probably THE most useful modeling tool (except for maybe file > save as), unless you intend to never close Maya.

Export selected and import are pretty damn useful modeling tools, too.

Oh, and I personally can't stand the way Maya does the incremental save. I much prefer to do save as and handle the increments myself.

[joojaa]

I dont thin 2-5 are valid. But seriously it does have 10 uses like youve beginning to discover.

One of them is a very good prank!

QUOTE(kjak @ 06/05/09, 11:47 PM) [snapback]308971[/snapback]
Well, I'd have to say that file > save is probably THE most useful modeling tool (except for maybe file > save as)

Yes,, but more and if you guys go and save in the ascii format, youll notice it opens up a whole new possibility for scripting stuff /editting. I mean a ma file is script more or less. So need to make a code for a shading network no problem if you have it at hand sve out as ma and copy paste the code form there. Need to input the data to execl for calculation copy out calculate copy back. Need to search and replace stuff such as making sure no vector is more than say 1 12 6

In any case the animation menu also has a few perennial favorites of mine, im now on whopping 271 uses for the blend shape node (yes we don't count face deform foot deform as different things i mean functional stuff). And yes the list is rechekked to NOT have any overlaps. One of its many uses is to encode a script so users have REALLY hard time figuring out what you did.

[user_deleted]

Didn't even think about adding the .ma part to my thinking, but it has proven unbelievably valuable in tracking down problems. I've done that a lot to render out variations of scenes w/out needing to reload the file, etc.

Now I'm gonna have to look at the blend shapes. That's one tool I haven't really explored yet. I find I stick to a few tools and use the crap out of them, but I know there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat.

[goldmember]

QUOTE(Joojaa @ 06/05/09, 01:37 PM) [snapback]308979[/snapback]
if you guys go and save in the ascii format, youll notice it opens up a whole new possibility for scripting stuff /editting.
I have always set to save in ascii format, but thats mostly to give a better chance of recovery after file corruption, or backwards compatibility.

but still... modeling tool? I would think more of a debugging tool or MEL learning tool, though I'd expect the script editor is a more practical/interactive method of learning MEL.

The node network snippets thing is a cool idea that I hadnt considered specifically. I would've done an export selection instead.

QUOTE(Joojaa @ 06/05/09, 01:37 PM) [snapback]308979[/snapback]
I dont thin 2-5 are valid.
How can this be! , I want to see your 10 list on File > New Scene, I just cant see any further use for it...

I'm guessing the "Prank" and maybe some more valid uses would involve setting a default scene?

[joojaa]

QUOTE
would think more of a debugging tool or MEL learning tool, though I'd expect the script editor is a more practical/interactive method of learning MEL.

Not allways, imagine doing this:

poly cube extrude extrude extrude manipulate and extrude. Then you want the extrude sequence to be made into a tool. Now you could track all the changes in the script editor. But if you save out a ma file mayas condensed it to the most minimal possible code there is. Also it allows you to work over sessions of maya use.