Intermediate/advanced Shake Training (australia)?

[user_deleted]

Hi,

I'm finding it very hard to locate many resources/locations within Australia that offer high-end training in Shake, and was wondering if anyone out there had any suggestions other than the AFTRS short courses?

I have legit lisences through work and despite having attained a pretty compitent working knowledge via dvd/book training resources, forums like these and every other free-to-air channel out there, I really want to take my education to the next level. Though I'm in Sydney where there is no shortage of fvx work, finding official channels to continue to jump-start my Shake training outside of 'on the job' is proving pretty hard.

Any advice or pointers welcome - I was even contemplating tracking down the most high-end shake user I could find working in Sydney and approach them for a few cash-in-hand private training sessions. Its those advanced workflow hints and tips I'm looking for, rather than trying to get another piece of paper for the pile.

Anyone?

Cheers
Demis

[deke-kincaid]

I would post this question on the DLF listserve. There is a large aussie user base there. Probably more concentrated then you will find randomly reading your msg here.
http://www.dlf.org.au/

[user_deleted]

i was wondering the same question.

i think AFTRS is your only bet. but was told they might just be teaching out of the Marco Paolini Shake Book. but who knows.

Teaching yourself is the only answer, besides AFTRS atm. unless of course you do get some shake op to train you.

I hope you find a good school/trainer, and then let me know how you go.

[user_deleted]

You can get a very very long way just by studying the manual, much further than you might think. Also read the brinkman book if you havent already and definately read the steve wright book after that. The wright book jumped me up a number of levels when I was learning.

I looked around for affordable intermediate level training for quite a while before biting the bullet and traning myself. Looking back, I was able to give myself better training through the resources avialable to me (books, tutorials, web, etc.) than I would have got at a school where they teach to the lowest common denomonator and try to pass everyone who enrols. Also now there are more training resources than there were then (CMI, Gnomon).

Anyway most shchool sylabuses are taken straight from the apple shake training book so what exactly are you paying thousands of dollars for?

Remember that you need to study visual effects and compositing and not just how to use shake. You should know the mathematics of Over and Screen layers (to give a couple of examples) and have a good knowlege of CG and rendering technologies. Make sure you know about matte painting, colour difference composinting with optical printers, film/commercial post production pipelines, etc. I fully reccomend watching VFX scenes in crappy hollywood movies in slow motion or even fram by frame to see how it was done.

The

[user_deleted]

Thanks for the tips guys!

I've been on the DLF list for a while - to be honest i find it better to find about stuff affecting the local CG scene in general, but the emphasis of the topics there is mostly 3d issues (and people talking crap and flaming each other for talking crap ). A great list though, especially for hearing about job postings before anyone else.

Totally agree mikemarcus - self-training has gotten me a long way already. The trouble with working isolated is that I never get the chance to explore other peoples scripts that often and see how they tackled the problems.

I'm doing as much as I can outside of work too - shots for shorts/whatever - just to keep piling up stuff in my reel... guess the ultimate goal is to move from my current 'shake-some-of-the-time' job to a place where i'm shaking full time to live and breathe that much more.

Thanks all..

Cheers
D

[user_deleted]

I doubt you are going to encounter many real world shake scripts in a school. You know how demos and tutorials belong to a world where everything happens smoothly and you never have to fight to get a shot working right.

Go work at animal logic or something. Be around other compositors. If they wont employ you, offer to work for free for a few weeks for the expreience. It will be cheaper than training.

[user_deleted]

For anyone interested : I just spoke to someone at Apple Australia and apparently they are planning on launching full certification in all the pro apps in all major australian cities fairly soon (no date mentioned). Nothing like this currently exists, but the implication was that they would be adding an official umbrella to some of the existing places which have already been offering Shake short courses so that official Apple pro-app certifications can be received without leaving the country.

Nice.

Said there will be a site up in a few weeks (maybe) - I'll post the link once they get back to me with a URL when it is launched.

Cheers
d

[deke-kincaid]

bleh, certifications for any software is totaly crap. Absolutely worthless. Everything they teach in the class is exactly the same as what is taught in the Peachpit press Shake book. Unless they offer an advanced class, I wouldn't bother.

I don't know how the IT/IS world is anymore but 10 years ago companies used to require MSCE or A++ certifications. I met a lot of people that passed these classes who I wouldn't trust to turn on a computer, let alone be a Sysadmin. The point is that certification is only worth the 5 cent piece of paper it was printed on. It doesn't mean shit.

[user_deleted]

I have no idea how much the certification costs but I cant imagine that it is worth the money or that any future employer will be particularly impressed by it. All it says is that you have completed (and partially remembered) the exercises in the Paolini book. I interviewed someone who had the certification and when i sat him down in front of shake, it turned out that he didnt even remember how to display a node in the viewer.

[user_deleted]

Damn... just when I thought I was getting somewhere.

Honestly, I learned a lot more than the Paolini books the first time I actually took on the first couple of filmmakers in need of effects shots, and from the sounds of it the learning-on-the-job way seems to be the best (only?) way to get employably skilled at this particular app.

Kinda chicken/egg issue though if you're stuck on the outside of the best companies trying to find your break in, but hey, I'm gonna keep plugging away anyway!

[user_deleted]

It is a chicken and egg issue but there is a quick way out for anyone with enough commitment to take it. Read every book you can, satisfy yourself that you have skilled yourself the the best of your abilities and then wonder over to Animal Logic and ask if you can work for free. They are likely to say yes. Make sure you define how long you are willing to work this way for and at the end of the period, if you have impressed them enough and they have the work to give you, you have yourself your first job.

You were willing to spend thousands of dollars on training, spend it on a month of lost wages instead.

[user_deleted]

Just stumbled across this thread. From Sydney myself (assuming that's where others are from) and making the switch to Shake from AE. Would you guys be interested at all in meeting up and sharing a few tips and tricks, or does that sound like a really crap way to spend an evening?

[user_deleted]

I can almost see the tumbleweeds rolling past

[user_deleted]

Frankly you are not going to find any shake training in Australia beyond the beginner level. There are a lot of good shake operators in the country but nothing really on the training front that will raise you above the level of the tuts and the marco paolini book.

sadly in terms of training online resources, have just had a look through the gnomon DVD's and although they are probably the best DVD thing out there I would expect a junior level shake op. to know all the things covered. The junior where I work certainly does.