Material Library (2)

[_dk_]

Hi folks,

How are you dealing with a situation when you're working with different scenes and want to share some materials?
Say having a number of even simplest ones (like 5 Lamberts with cube map (yes all 6 faces already setup with propper tiling and other params)) and just picking them as it is done in 3DS Max (they have material libraries available from the menu where the user is assigning materials to the objects. You can update library working on one scene and then use the new material in another scene). If I try to store materials in maya scene and import it later in my scene - it works awful, since all the old materials are duplicated.

I was thinking of making a MEL script with such a functionality, but there might be another solution to the problem or maybe someone has already implemented something similar.

Thank you.

[toast--2]

On the Maya DVD there's already an example of an existing shader library (although it's from like Maya 5 or 6).

Maya's not very efficient as Max's system as it takes a little more manual work, but Maya can use the Visor to import shaders or from the Hypershade itself (Shader Library tab), it won't import with file names using this way.

Personally, I've set my library up with material previews that were rendered from the mrmaterials.com test scene. I have a system like this:

concrete04.ma - (Which contains the shader)
Under the .mayaSwatches folder I've got an icon rendered called concrete04.ma.swatch

When I'm working on a scene I just import materials using the Visor or the Hypershade (I prefer Visor). Hope this makes sense, ask if it doesn't.

[toast--2]

Also, if you want to keep the materials synced between scenes you could always reference the shader from your library into your scene.

[_dk_]

Thank you for response,

QUOTE
Maya's not very efficient as Max's system as it takes a little more manual work, but Maya can use the Visor to import shaders or from the Hypershade itself (Shader Library tab), it won't import with file names using this way.

I didn't manage to find this tab in Hypershade. Does it exist in Maya 8.5?

QUOTE
Personally, I've set my library up with material previews that were rendered from the mrmaterials.com test scene. I have a system like this:

Alright how can I render thumbnails of my materials so they are shown in Visor?

QUOTE
Also, if you want to keep the materials synced between scenes you could always reference the shader from your library into your scene.

That's what I need. It sounds ok. But as far as I get (correct me if I'm wrong) the changes made to the referenced material won't be reflected in the reference source. It's not too bad, but sometime you'd like to tweak something in the scene you're working on (and expect it to be refleced in the library), rather than going back to the library scene and setting params there and rloading references in the scene.

[toast--2]

1) Yes, I forgot to mention you have to declare the "Shader" location on your Hard Drive so Maya knows where the path is in the Hypershade.

Under your Maya version preferences folder (maya\8.5), there should be a file called Maya.env. Open it in a text editor and write in something like this:

MAYA_SHADER_LIBRARY_PATH = D:\Library\Textures

But obviously change the directory to where your going to have the textures/shaders. When you open Maya again you'll get a tab down the bottom half of the Hypershade "Work Area/Shader Library".

2) This is the part that kind of sucks with Maya's shader library as it's involves a bit of manual work. Render out your material preview with some sort a standard neutrally lit scene so you get nice consistent icons for your shaders (like I mentioned, I use the scene from mrmaterials.com).

All you have to do is save the rendered image the same as your material's file name. So, for example:

Concrete.04.ma is the filename and contains the concrete shader
Under a .mayaSwatches folder create a concrete04.ma.swatch file which is the icon (it's really just a .iff file but rename it so it ends in swatch).

If you do this right your shaders will have Icons in both the Visor and the Hypershade.

3) I haven't really played with References and shaders that much but you can save references edits I'm sure.

[e-anima]

really cool. but how can i change the swatches resolution. i want to have 400x400 pixel swatches if i zoom in.

thanks

[amorano]

QUOTE(e-anima @ 04/01/09, 11:07 AM) [snapback]304626[/snapback]
really cool. but how can i change the swatches resolution. i want to have 400x400 pixel swatches if i zoom in.

thanks

Did you ever get a solution to larger swatch sizes? All I end up with are 64x64 size swatches (small and blurry on 1920x1280).

We have an extensive library of shaders, and would love to update everything with a nice thumbnail. Would hate to resort to an external app like Adobe Bridge.

[joojaa]

You need to make bigger swatch files. I am currebntly running on 256 big swatches and it works fine.

Juts rendera a bigger image and use the grab to swatch option in the render view.

[amorano]

QUOTE(Joojaa @ 06/05/09, 01:08 AM) [snapback]308939[/snapback]
You need to make bigger swatch files. I am currebntly running on 256 big swatches and it works fine.

Juts rendera a bigger image and use the grab to swatch option in the render view.

I think we got which swatches I am talking about mixed up.

NOT the actual shader in the materials/textures/etc tabs, but the ones that show up (file swatches) in the Shader Library tab.

I am talking about the physical file swatches. I can render those as 128x 256x 512x but they still show up in the visor and the hypershade window (next to the shader library tab) as 64x64 images.

NOW, if I drag the shader network I want into the actual Material window maya shows my shader applied to a sphere (normal behavior) and I can display them all the way up to the extra large swatches option.

This is a real drag because we have so many shading networks designed, and being able to quickly scan for a new starting point for materials would help the workflow/pipeline here.

I am quite suprised this has been asked about over the years (far back as 6.0) and Alias/Autodesk never saw a way to add either an option to scale them (other than a really crappy linear zoom) or just use the file's own dimensions.

Currently my work around is to render these out at 256x and use Adobe Bridge to view them, then track it down in the Shader library window in Maya.

It works, but I'd rather have it all in Maya, just because.

[joojaa]

QUOTE(Amorano @ 06/05/09, 08:24 PM) [snapback]308959[/snapback]
I am talking about the physical file swatches. I can render those as 128x 256x 512x but they still show up in the visor and the hypershade window (next to the shader library tab) as 64x64 images.

Yes so am I. The maximum you can set maya to show in visor swatches as well as material swatches is 12kx12k Thats should be enough would you think. But theres no 64x64 limit the smallest default limit is 512k square. Have you tried to zoom in with alt+rmb+mmb dragging? Yes so you talking of the snapping area, yes you can disable the snap so they smoothly grow up to any size you wish! By default theres a stop at 256 256 but it can be lifted if you wish.

There is a option for max size tough in Window->Settings/Preferences and the choose Display

Maybe thi si a limitation on mac? What veresion of maya rae you running maybe this is a bug thet has crept in?

QUOTE
This is a real drag because we have so many shading networks designed, and being able to quickly scan for a new starting point for materials would help the workflow/pipeline here.

Who does not. I mean i just have source codes for 678 shaders not countung any netwriks made using them

[amorano]

QUOTE(Joojaa @ 06/05/09, 01:46 PM) [snapback]308970[/snapback]
Yes so am I. The maximum you can set maya to show in visor swatches as well as material swatches is 12kx12k Thats should be enough would you think. But theres no 64x64 limit the smallest default limit is 512k square. Have you tried to zoom in with alt+rmb+mmb dragging? Yes so you talking of the snapping area, yes you can disable the snap so they smoothly grow up to any size you wish! By default theres a stop at 256 256 but it can be lifted if you wish.

There is a option for max size tough in Window->Settings/Preferences and the choose Display
Maybe thi si a limitation on mac?

I think I am confusing this, or maybe you dont understand.

A) I am not talking about texture size, that works fine. Textures are viewed perfectly great up to the 6k res we use.

I am referring to the actual .swatch file. Yes, I can render/grab/etc these to ANY size, but in the visor/hypershade displays (for the PREVIEW, not the shader network icon(s) that show up in the materials tab, or in the AE windows) are limited to 64x64.

C) We dont use Macs (except in the compositing department). I have tried installing 2008x32,2008x64, 2009x32, 2009x64 on Windows XP 32, x64, Vista Ultimate and Windows 7. This is something limited by Autodesk that I can not find anyplace.

Here is a picture to explain, ultimately, what I am saying....

http://img200.imageshack.us/i/crappy.jpg/

and if I zoom

http://img200.imageshack.us/i/crappy2.jpg/

The first shot may look great at the small res image I posted, but now think of that across a screen 2x the width and height, making the details in the shading network get lost in the preview, rendering them pretty much useless.

Keep in mind all of these images were rendered at 256x256, and some are at 512x512. None the less, Maya only displays them at 64x64.

Again, NOT texture files. Those are fine.

[joojaa]

Ok then that means there's a 3rd setting somewhere.

QUOTE(Amorano @ 06/06/09, 12:30 AM) [snapback]308977[/snapback]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img] I am referring to the actual .swatch file. Yes, I can render/grab/etc these to ANY size, but in the visor/hypershade displays (for the PREVIEW, not the shader network icon(s) that show up in the materials tab, or in the AE windows) are limited to 64x64.

Yes i know, but my swatch files are way bigger than 64x64 They are in fact 512x512. So we have established it works on my computer and does not work on yours. Than that means some extra setting governs this. now all i need to do is find out what i have changed.

QUOTE
think I am confusing this, or maybe you dont understand.

Dont assume just because you cant get it to work thet it does not. That would be a folly of thinking. In fact i do have track record of being able to make maya doe the impossible without even knowing it. Now let me dig into it

QUOTE
http://img200.imageshack.us/i/crappy.jpg/

Like i said we are definitely talking of the same thing.... Mine are 512 even for things that use files in the .swtaches folder! So it is possible. Just cant put my finger on why it wouldnt work on your maya. Its just that my mayas not exactly a vanilla one (more like a stwaberry chocolate chip, double chocolate, deluxe )

Even so there is a 2nd option you can mdoify the drag and drop behaviour of the visor so that youd actually store iff files there and the maya files in the swtaches folder instead, and let maya do it the opposite way. But id better find the setting if theres any.

Its just a bit hard to dig out as im not using the factory shipped hypershade.

PS: why dont you dock your visor in the hypershade tabs, they are visors too? That way you dont need to have 2 windows open! Thatway your visor serves clear functional purpose form on place to command textures.

[amorano]

Well, actually I got a follow up on CGTalk.

I am not sure how you are seeing the full res files and not the 64x64 thumbnails because I confirmed it today on the phone with Autodesk, as was pointed out here:

CGTalk - Scroll to bottom ...

The autodesk rep I got also confirmed that the thumbnails are locked in Maya to display 64x64 no matter what res you have in your swatch iff file.

So, if you can figure out what magic you did, that'd be great, otherwise I am regulating the 20+ artists to use Explorer or Bridge to view the shader previews.

Thanks for talking it out though, seems to be very little info (and now I suppose I know why....)

[joojaa]

Ugh, found it. Yeah its a veeeery long fix in 3 mel files And some c code. Unfortunately this is bad news, since i cant just share assets that don't exactly belong to me. (I work so what i do at work by default belongs to my employer, i do gain shared rights but theya re not transferable to other entities without consent).

QUOTE
The autodesk rep I got also confirmed that the thumbnails are locked in Maya to display 64x64 no matter what res you have in your swatch iff file.

That may well be but you can work around it.

[joojaa]

I can give you alternate strategy tough, thats easier to implement*. Store the maya files in the . sawtches directory. And use iff files called ydadayada.ma/mb/mel/whatever.iff Then change the behaviour of the rmb menu/drag and drop to run it trough a regexp to take the iff off and chek if a corresponding file exists.

Its a bit painfull to use but its fine for a long standing, tahts where the 3 mel edits and the c code comes in. No all you need to do is make it.

• this is all the tip i can say, without violating my contract

PS: yes i know autodesk should ldo it but see i dont actually care for things i can have in distant future. Only now counts.

[joojaa]

QUOTE(Joojaa @ 06/06/09, 11:29 AM) [snapback]308999[/snapback]
I can give you alternate strategy tough, thats easier to implement*.

It seems its not going to work if i disable the code thet goes and re updates the swatches. So all the changes we make seem to be temporarily in memory only an dnee dto regenerate at each folder open.

You can test this by the way by dragging a swatch grab swatch icon bigger then 64 x 64 on top of the icon in the visor it not keeps being bigger untill you force reload. We just go and update each of them after the fact.

[toast--2]

I'm thinking a "Suggest Feature" to Autodesk.

I'm sure it's something they'd be proud to announce in a new a version of Maya....

"Maya HD 2011", now with 50% more high definition swatches!

[joojaa]

QUOTE(HamburgerTr @ 06/06/09, 11:44 AM) [snapback]309002[/snapback]
"Maya HD 2011", now with 50% more high definition swatches!

I think they havent done anything for the visor since 1999, anyway this c code is very interesting, i definitely didn't do this one. It seems mel has no controll over this layer and the c code just hacks the data drops in using standard windows mechanisms. Not my strong point tough.

Pesonally for me the fact that autodesk says something does not mean it cant be done. I mean i do programming dev for another 3d prog regularly (well ist my primary job, or rather to bridge it with other 3d progs, not to coerce maya to bent do my will), and it keeps surprising me how the clients do whats impossible all the time.