Maya UI is crap (well..not so crappy afterall)..so

[cristian]

Being forced to switch 3d app (not that it was something wrong about that), i discover that maya has a verry old style UI (almost the same as v.2) and it was almost impposible for me to work with, so , since it has great tools (MEL) I end up tailorig to my needs...

This is for those who are tired to see the same ugly UI, this is an example to what you can do with it...

Of course you realise by now whitch was my previous 3d app..

Some explanations:
-top left list switches modes buttons (LW,XSI style)
-right box "Materials" is colapsable to save space, and when clicked on materials opens AE. (based on the idea by Keith Legg maker of GIL)

ps
i made this UI while back for v.4, and improved it in time, and now i ported it in v.6.

[gmask]

I'd like to see what you've done but your image is not allowed to be remotely linked.

[joojaa]

hard to se the benifits of your ui as tha standard maya ui is pretty good for most things (as long as tou hide the toolbar, menus and shelf). sticll icon based. Looks liike your ui is optimized for someone who only mainly does modelling/ simple animation.

I dont realy have anything else open except the time slider and a custom channelbox, (wich has layer and shelves in it), no menus no nothing so... I only use hotbox/marking menus for commands. wich means your ui isnt helping me one bit. But i guess thats a custom ui so...

[ewerybody]

looks really impressing. Will you release it?

Don't know if this could be useful for me. I'm quite happy with my customizations that I set up for work.
Only for rendering and renderoptions that I just need at home I could use something more comfortable ui...

I hate loads of menues. Just like Joojaa said. I got everything I need on hotkeys.

[cristian]

yep, since i'm a modeler, texturer artist, of course, i made it to fit my needs...

it might look a bit odd to someone who's first app was maya, but for me it was nightmare (hate criptic icons, like text buttons... old habits die hard )

so every time i switch companies i adjust / add some stuff (NURBS just came in)
in my experience, every studio has it own UI with custom tools and menus, specific for every departament ...

my keyboard is full of shorcut assigments and MM is not my love (navigatind in submenus when a MM activated near screen edge is impossible)

again... this is for those that for some reasons whant to go maya, and are discouraged of learning a new UI, this is the proff that in time (MEL is real easy) you ca make it look like your old 3d app.

i'm lookig forward to see if anyone did somethig similar...
new ideas come from dialog...

[joojaa]

well cryptic icons have one advantage... they take less space than textbuttons in general! And once you get them in your head theres no difference in using them. And lets face it screen estate is what is most important for most of us.

Besides, your ui is kindof retro, while mayas is too but thats because it has minimal eyecandy as opposed to xsi for example.

[hansesurfer]

Hi,

I really like that interface. I started with XSI and, when turned to maya, I thought: oh my god , that interface is crap. Now I like it . Only use hotkeys, time slider and channel box.
You also got a XSI interface??
Share it!!!!!!!! :-)))))

[joojaa]

Yes id like to evaluate this interface... the problem with most users who make new interfaces for maya is that they have not very through knowlege of how maya UI works so they mss some of the subte ideas of the maya ui... Wich lessens the usabilty oftheir own interfaces.

[cristian]

well ..that'a a contradiction of terms...how can you mod the UI if you dont have through knowlege of how maya UI works.

I manage to build that after I studied its UI (and MEL) verry carefuly.

And this is the cool thing about maya .... is like a kitchen... you have every ingredient at hand... it's up to you to bake the pie you like most...

of course you won't starve if you fry the egs, and eat raw sugar... but its better to mix them in one good pie.

but hey... thats why we have a MEL forum, because we like to cook

and check this out (if you haven't already saw it)
http://www.pixtur.de/text\_maya\_redesign.ger.html

[iconoklast]

I think this just goes to show that Maya reigns surpreme in customisability, no? Maybe not the most user friendly method, but its definitely able.

[joojaa]

Not realy, bacuse while you must absolutely learn mel and probably look at some examples you have a underlying sense of thisis crap going on quite adamantly (or else you wouldnt be building a new ui). This in your mind makes you think they are crappier than they in reality are, it aslo makes you skip certain design ideas bacuse they dont seem to fit in your way of working and thereby missing the grand idea behind the component (Or you just plain missed it!).

Im not saying yours is bad or better in some respects but its hard for me to think your the next worlds best ui designer. Lets face it maya has made ui improvements fo a lot of programs such as marking menyus and the like.

Ive seen the redesign paper and arged for and against i ti nthe past. How the ui actualy looks is in the end not essential as long as it feeds me with what i need, eyecady isnt realy neccesery.

Question, did your ui uncorporate the following things the dafault ui had.

1) quickselection? (yeah i know the default one is a biy clumsy i do hope you have this its one of the best tools around)
2) numeric input field (yes even for creation), in relative/world mode (thisis not the same as the channelbox)
3) togle atribute editor with channelbox.
4) quikcly toggle between layouts.
5) hiding and unhiding parts of the ui?

Then theres the list orf tweaks i have in my maya.

1) added icons to the bottom of the toolbox (i never actualy have it open but if i do i want to us ethat space and i do!), otion to uyse halfsized icons
2) toggle for smaller shalf icons for lass space used
3) alternate shelf placemant iin a tab next to the layers palette (for me its a different shelf but it mimics the normal shelf whan normal shelf is hidden)
4) redesign of thw vievport menus. Added a bookmark menu directly to the top (fatser to use) and combined enabled a way to save a isolate setting to bookmark/ aranged saved isolates tehre too.
5) a cahracter tab in the same window as channelbox wich contains the ui for whatever character im working on, changes with selection.
6 added a render in renderman button into the status line, also addes selection modes to the dropdown, with a few catefgorieds of added icons to replace the snap ones and saveones (obsolete you have teh shortcuts anyway)
7) always hide the menubar and toddle for tilebar hiding and overstretching to compensate fror shrunken vindow
8) dded some things into the qicksel/translate menu sich as a dropdown for known selections, and autocomplete names.
9) additional panel thats a split panel type so i can make a five panel split if i wish.
10) a way for sheleves to handle items with popups (working on this its still abit buggy).

Otherwise it still looks like a vanilla maya, wich is a bit retro but hardy anything you realy notice its not a candybar you know, how it looks is nt essential.

[failure]

Ah, a classic "my-app's-ui-is-better-than-yours-app's-ui-and-i-know-that-you-think-opposite-but i think...." " type thread.

I prefer minimalistic look too - no menus and toolbox, mostly hotbox/hotkey dependent with toggles of sandard ui elements. Nothing special really.

Apart from what joojaa said about subtle ui concepts, what is interesting about this topic is that everybody who claims maya ui is crappy and retro and whatever, focuses only on icons and menus - how they look, how they pop up, how many pixels are they wide, and how many miliseconds does it take to click on a command. Namely - the eye candy stuff.

Usually nobody sees really good concepts in maya's ui - things that are so good designed and natural to use that are not percieved as ui at all.
Are tool manipulators crap? Is visor/hypershade crap? Is attribute spreadsheet crap? Are graph and trax editors crap? Etc...

Mind you - these are all parts of the maya ui

[iconoklast]

I hardly think this post is about that at all. I simply think that the fellow, who was accustomed to lightwave, chose to change the maya ui into something he's comfortable with.
I believe it just shows the customisability of maya, and if he wants to make it look like he desires, then so be it. Afterall, maya is designed to be customised to your workflow, no?
You prefer minimalist, he prefers the way he himself coded it.

How can you say otherwise?

[joojaa]

Well no, but claim a ui is crap just because it doesnt look that way you want it to is stupid. What hes essentialy saying is that hey my ui is BETTER.

While it probably is form his point of view is not nesssecserily true at all to most users. Besides, i find it very very hard to claim that maya ui is crap... Infact I still stand behind my words and say that maya ui is one of the most innovative and best ones ive ever seen (ok so it took me 2 years to start appreciating it to the full). And the fact that you can do whatever you like with it only makes it BETTER, the fact that ist scripted is part of the overall (and by claim crappy) appeal.

Hotkeys and markingmenus are PART of maya ui too.

Ahem something to think about. If maya ui is crapp

[iconoklast]

It's all about personal opinion. As I stated, he comes from a lightwave/xsi background (it seems), so it's obvious he will feel more comfortable about using a UI similar to those.
Though I agree that saying the maya UI is crap is not wise, and I feel he could have worded it otherwise, the point of his post was not to diss Maya and it's UI. He even provides an analogy on the strength of maya's UI customisability.

If he feels that his UI is better than the original UI, that's his opinion, and no one else is entitled to say otherwise. The funny thing is though, he's not saying about how much the UI sucks and not doing anything about it.

I'm not saying the maya UI is crappy. It's great, not aesthetically pleasing, but it's powerful.

Some people prefer eyecandy, some people don't. Again, it's all about opinion.
If you've ever seen people play competitive computer games, (quake3, etc etc). You'll notice some people like to play with their settings tuned all the way down, high gamma, etc. And others like to play with all their graphics set to high quality. You can't really argue, but use what you are comfortable with.

The UI can look however it wants, but the tools remain the same. It's like using 'expert mode' in maya. There's not a UI element in there except for your viewport and the marking menus/hotkeys. What you're saying means that you need to have all the UI elements (shelf, etc) open to 'experience Maya'. All he did was rearrange the UI to fit his needs. If everything HE needs is there, then why does he need to bother about anything else?

I don't know why I'm arguing for him. It's just sad to see people get so defensive about unnecessary things.

[cristian]

IT IS A POST ABOUT MEL, UI, HOW WE MAKE IT WORK THE WAY WE WANT FOR OURSELFS...

I TAKE BACK THE "CRAP" WORD...(it was just my oppinion, reffering to myself only)
so let's say... not so optimised fo MY taste (workflow)

quote
"Well no, but claim a ui is crap just because it doesnt look that way you want it to is stupid. What hes essentialy saying is that hey my ui is BETTER. "

then define the sense of "I don't like that..."
Because I'm sure there are thingsin this world you consider uggly, while others like them (food for example)
Do you like fried cats or dogs?
I don't like it either, but is our oppinion and it doesn't mean that those who like to eat dogs to reply with :
-"Well no, but claim a ui is crap just because it doesnt look that way you want it to is stupid. What hes essentialy saying is that hey my ui is BETTER. "

in other words... don't put words i've never said in my mouth...

btw
I know a good joke about this...but know i'm quite affraid to sai it... it could be interpreted the wrong way... sheesh

I'm sorry to say but there is some vietnam sindrome in the air....

MEL, UI, WORKFLOW, FREE SPEECH... remember?

I expected to see what others did, ideas, oppinion of what they would think is better, learn some things from eachother... and I received some slaps instead...

hope dies last...

[joojaa]

Calm down, its a debate and a moderately enjoyable one. Dont take things personaly, some of the stuff are out there to prvocate tought.

its cool to be inventive enough to build something this massive. Alrtough its hard to tell, can you swap bettween standard mayya ui and yours on the fly or didi you edit the mayas internal srripts wiuthout mapping them to a different folder first!

It is however a intersting tought that inorder to make maximum eyecandy you want the least amount of it on your screen.

But i do have to disagree that a ui only has a function to support your sense of asthetics and preference. One of the most important factors are actualy measureable, sometimes ovver time a niftily designed sytem gets into your brain like driving a bike. Maya has a lot of theese features, more so than most 3d apps ive used out there.

Also Alias has for a long time been a advocate of actualy manipulating the way you work by forcing you to work with certain well tought/planned workflow habits. Im not saying it is totaly justified. But teh bottom line is it actualy works to improve productivity... And doing a tool that possibly circumvets this forced hand might not be a terribly smart move.

so teh ui dives your tought on how things work.

so 2 quetions that need to be carefully studied before answering.

a) did improvements actualy improve your workflow, did it make you more productive when compared to you taking time learning the standard maya workflow good enough to max its capabilities! If not then the ui is in a sense worse.

was the time you spent on developping this new ui worth it. Also on the same stroke you now have a good opportunity to change thing on the fly, bbut how often do you actualy do it and how offten do you just eat the salt so to speak becaue its hard to do? And is your layoutstructure as easily extendable as most default maya ones are after you get into it serously, or is there alot of hardcodded stuff in it or is it dynamic?

[cristian]

in general, things tend to evolve (in a better way) and that's why we have winxp with its eyecandy and other gismos here and there, or osx...
I noticed that companies begun to understand that beauty sels (can't disagre with that so they improve among other things, the interface (we have a good example on SI>XSI , LW4>LW5.5>LW7 etc)
Of course this changes of look (and sometimes placement of known function in the new ui ) made some waves, but the general idea is that it worth the effort to adjust to a new ui.

in maya's case alias instead having a dep. for ui design, preffered a diffrent aproach.. let the user design his own ui the way he sees fit.

So , although the ui remains much the same, the added new controls ant others functions related JUST FOR UI ITSELF.
It is amazing how many new things they implement to help the user to build the ui he wants...I know because i begun to make my ui since maya4.

A bad example is Photoshop whom only starting v8 you can change the default shortcuts and assign new ines (still the best 2d app in the market thow)

And to answer your questions:
you bet it improved my workflow,(you always do things when you relly need them, right?) and even if it took me some time to leatn mel it worth a lot the effort and time, not mentioning the ui but learning a lot of stuff about maya along the way.

This is not final , I always add things along the way.
It is not like drag-n-drop shelf icon, but the mel is structured verry logical an it takes me few sec. to ad a button or a group of new commands as soon as i discover that i begin tu use them more and moore.

what you see on the left is actually the old toolbox cleaned up of all its functions (never need them anyway) and ad my own buttons and menus.
When you click on one of the items in the list above it , the menus and buttons change to that speciffic type of work (like the shelf more or less).

There are only mel scrips( no plugins or dlls) most og them are maya's originals with some mods and relocate them to a new folder so i have both maya riginals and mine (mine loads first
So wherever i go i thake the disk with my settings and put them in the new pc and voila... copy paste, and ready to work...

they are user specific and they can be deleted along with my user, without harming the pc.

Or if i want i just rename the maya folder and i'm back to its oiginal ui.
Or ,by pushing a shortcut i can switch to one big viewport the size of my entire screen.
I tried to make it as flexible as i need it.

Oh, the UI is mine 100% but the scrips and commands are part maya's, part downloaded (others scripts... thaks all)
and part a combination of those two.

I will release it maybe (not necesarely that someone finds it usable, but maybe for its coding and internal structure, or somethind usable there) after i will make it even flexible... I'm still unsatisfied with some things, the most important one is to be able to mod it without going to a script editor...just an ui settings window.

i'l post an animated gif to see ti working....

[joojaa]

did you know that maya has a other then folder coying mechanism to coexist with many versions of the ui by overloading the functions?

[ame]

Hello,

the new UI sure looks good it would be nice if you can share the scripts, maybe not a lot of people are going to use the new design but perhaps some people would start to implement new UI for there own use and "abuse".

I did some changes to the ToolBox my self, I never found usefull the little "Maya" icons in the lower left corner so I changed to add my own command instead. But at the same time I always been too lazy or afraid to change the UI too much. For some awkword reasons.

If you have a chance post a link to the MEL files to take a look at, it would be great even if you considere them a work in progress.

Thanks for sharing.

Andrea