Maya UI is crap (well..not so crappy afterall)..so

[ame]

Hello,

I know that the channel box is in the Maya core and it's not accessible with the API, you cannot creature new UI elements in Maya (ELF is not exposed in the API)

What I was suggesting is to have a new UI Element that would allow you to create a more customizable channel box and a more "modular" UI - thats it.

[joojaa]

You cant realy touch the channelbox but you can split the screen whare channelbox sits and add whatever you wiant on the otherside of the split like the layer controll does...

Are you sure thats not enough for you.

for example i very often just drop the character ui in a split vindow tab thats beside the layercontroll. Doing so does even not need hacking maya code all you need to know is tha adress of the layout. This widow can then source different melcodes initself like tha ae depending onwhat character is currebtly selected.

Not hard at all!

[ame]

Nope sadly is not enought, I would like to be able to have more controll over the channel box. Other then there is a lot of limitation on what the channel box can trace (for example does not trace connection to plug-ins that are not DG node [ex. locators]).

Also it would be nice to be able to add functionaly to the channel box for attribute change adding call backs (without the need of creating script job that tend to slow down Maya a lot).

The modularity is not only for the channel box but also for other parts of the UI, for example there is not easy access to add custom marky menu to the right mouse button for custom nodes you have to modify the MEL scripts that alias provide.

It's not about adding a new UI it's about flexibility. I'm quite aware of what MEL can and can't do.

I would love to see an approch similar to the AE editor for the channel box as well, without the speed impact (and the size) of the attribute editor it self.

Hope it does make sense.

The ability to customize a UI in a easy and intuitive way it's quite important and Alias did not add many new widgets in Maya for a long long time. For example it would be nice to have a rollInt and a rollFloat widgets and it would be nice to be able to extend UI element using the API.

Does it make sense?

Few other improvements for the current UI would be:

• Tear-off for shelves
• Marking Menu on shelf buttons
• Different shelf sets (Default/user/shared)
  I know there is work arround and some MEL scrit is already available but it would be nice to be able to have this functionality in the standard package, they are not hard to implement and would make the day by day life a lot easier.

And since you have customize your UI quite a bit would you like to share your code?

thanks,

-a

[joojaa]

I can get other dag objects as part of my channelbox trace such as locators? Callback would be nice but a scriptjob is a callback... Problem is that if you adda callback to a channelbox then it would only affect the channelbox not if you changed in the atribute editor or in some other way.

The right markingmenu yes okay so you need to add a line there and your module is able to run big deal!

its not possible to have a aelike approach without a seed impact. becaus ethe code needs to be parsed and that allways takes time... Channelbox is kindoff a tradeoff beween speed and versatility. that said you can add your callback thru the api!

tearoff shelves is available via mel yes! I think theres a few exaples on this site. Atleast i have at one early time iplemented this id need to open my oldest computer to find it... wich means taking a bustrip for about 100 km up north.

you can have marking menus on shelfbuttons, i stubled across this years ago by accident all you need to do is manualy edit the shelf files, not user intuitive tough!

different shelf sets okay ive implemented that allready if you need tips just ask.

I cant share my code sorry... its against my contract! I can only share what i specificaly write for this forum.

[ame]

Hello,

I know there is work arround and MEL script available and they are great but it would be nice that simple usability issue would be solved by alias, like tear off and marking menu in the shelf.

If Alias implemented a call back system, not script job based, it would be very handy. You can do something similar in the AE, been just standard Maya slider you can add call back and things like that. A similar system would be nice to have it on the channel box, maybe sharing the same code.

No you can't trace connection to a locator node, if you have access to Syflex you would know what I mean. The channel box has limitation oh how it works and what it can trace, it can't even trace Alias own nodes (hair system and follicle, if you create an hair system and you select the object the hair system node would not be present in output section of the channel box).

I undestand work arround and I apriciate them, I'm glad that they are there and I'm glad that they are possible this is one of the things that Maya is exelent there is very little situation where you can't find a way arround at the same time there is always room to improve.

I'm not critisizing Alias, the old UI the new UI and so on I just making a point that some parts of Maya needs a little bit of improvements some other parts are great as they are and I hope they would not change any time soon.

Also you mention earlier not to change base code because after you have to change the code all the time and now you suggest that few lines of MEL is not a big deal, I don't mind to have to add few lines of code but it would be nice if you did not need to do so. Do you agree?

I agree that the channel box is a trade off but there is a always room for improvements.

By the way manuall edit the shelf files is not a valid alternative, when you exit maya or save the shelfs your edit are gone because Alias does not support marking menu on the shelf button in the standard shelf.

I mean one of the great part of the Maya UI is that has been build in MEL, Alias should just give a more modular approch to let the user change the UI without the need to change core scripts. I don't think it's a real priority right now, there is a lot of other features that I would prefer them to work then create a new pretty UI to be honest but I think this should be in the list of "to do's".

Cheers
-a

[joojaa]

So you want a computer that reads your mind? Sorry i dont, because that day we are all out of jobs! Altough im not denying it wouldnt be cool (i neither wat a make cool renderbutton or anything like that either)

I mean no one can realy know what you want so if you want soemthing esoteric then you need to code it. Not everybody has the same needs. So what your few lines of code change means is that some other functionality is NOT developped by alias while your needs wre cartered giving someone else who allready had that functionality set up not realy seeing benifit to upgrade.

As for why syflex sint visibble is probably due to a part how syflex is designed.

What i was telling was that theres a way to make the shelves REATAIN the marking menus even if maya overvrites the code by manualy editting! Im not suggesting somethin purely stupid after all following code makes a right click menu wich gets whaked once you read it in the next time you start maya!

setParent MayaWindow|mayaMainWindowForm|formLayout2|formLayout14|formLayout15|formLayout49|ShelfLayout|Custom;
shelfButton -annotation "pushme"

	-image1 "commandButton.xpm";

		popupMenu;

			menuItem; menuItem; menuItem;

;

but im talking of a intersting feature of tool buttons that dont get overwritten like the stanndard shelf buttons do!

[joojaa]

Also the reason why you dont se the follicles is the same kind of thing why you dont se the anim curves as history connections either, or things that are directly connected to channels. No one woul realy jump of you by having outiner listing a million of follicles in the output tab!

you can nevertheless FORCE thosic to show up altough its rather hacky to do so!

They are like sets not part of real connections that you see.

But still the syflex thing is more like syflex choisee not mayas inability to do so.

Academic discussion in where you want all your needs cartered for and expect everyone to agree with you. And offcourse they will its just not possible to include everything in a programm in a real world.

Dont worry about what is in future or what should be worry about what IS. And please send alias feedback!

[ame]

Hello There,

first of all: this remind me why I stop reading and writing on this forums in the past, for your information.

As for why syflex sint visibble is probably due to a part how syflex is
designed.

It's not Syflex limitation since it's a limitation of the channel box. Also the Alias Hair System does not get traced correctly in the Channel Box. You should take a look at the limitation of the channel box before making this kind of comments.

setParent
MayaWindow|mayaMainWindowForm|formLayout2
|formLayout14|formLayout15|formLayout49|ShelfLayout|Custom;

This is not an accebtable solution since you are hardcoding a path to a UI element, either way I'm not the only one asking for this features.

So you want a computer that reads your mind? Sorry i dont,
because that day we are all out of jobs!

If you like we can continue this conversion in private message, I never asked a "renderbutton" I asked improvements in the UI. And for your information I might have some experience in the CG field.

I developed a lot of MEL script for Maya and I'm glad that MEL is there, as I said I'm not critisizing Alias, Maya or the UI I would like to see improvements I also pointed out that there is other tools that need further improvements before to change the UI.

anyway I think it's pointless to argue.

[ame]

You are not correct, the hair system is a limitation in the channel box and Alias already respond "This is a limitaiton" and it will addressed in the future realese of Maya. I don't mind not to be able to trace the follicle, would not make much sense to be honest but the hair system node it would be very hand. If you ever had a chance to use the hair of course.

This was a problem since the bening.

They are like sets not part of real connections that you see.

This is again not correct, they are nodes in the history of the geometry.

you can nevertheless FORCE thosic to show up altough its rather hacky to do so!

Would you be so nice to share the hacky parts when Alias was not able to give a solution? I'll be rather interested your solution.

Academic discussion in where you want all your needs cartered for and
expect everyone to agree with you. And offcourse they will its just not
possible to include everything in a programm in a real world.

I agree and I'm glad that MEL/ELF are there, just give even more power with the API and with further MEL. I do not need Alias to spend too much time on MEL code I would rather see them implementing core functionality but at the same time they need to give a strong base for the use to expand the software. More modularity for example would help quite a bit.

Dont worry about what is in future or what should be worry about what
IS. And please send alias feedback!

I give alias as much feedback as I can.

thanks,

-a

[joojaa]

im not hardcoding a path at all... Im jsut adding the path so taht the button is added to the shelf... im not refeering to the hardcoded path anywhere! im jsut telling to add it there. I was just visualizing a CODE that DOES NOT work on load!

[joojaa]

just pointing out that you cant get what i say if you dont read all my words! i speak in ideas not in solutions. You can hire me but im more expensive then your maya lic.

[ame]

I'll try in the morning, I don't think it would work. I have my solution to add marking menu to the shelf buttons but it's not a great one.

I still think it would be great to have it in the main package been a very simple addition I don't see why it should not be there by default.

[ame]

I don't own a maya licese I use it in the office. I don't need one at home but thanks for offering your services, but I think I'm quite ok at doing my own coding when I need.

cheers.

[joojaa]

Not the code there dosent work! its just works for one session. But if you write it directly in your shelf file then you dont need to refeer to the path as its inheritted automaticaly. all you need to do is add popupMenu; menuItem; menuItem; menuItem; after your button Except it still get overwritten by save.

becaus on load the shelf only sources what sin the file! wich means all the dirty work was done at save.

One trick is to include the code in doctag and source it for every shelf item. Its rather easy, but a bit tedious.

The other is to preporcess the files before using them, wich is effective.

3 best way is to manualy write the shelves (by this i dont mean doing it manualy but rather doing the code for write manualy), instead of using the saveShelf command. thisway you have full controll over the fact. You can even add standard button in the shelf... and anything you like.

4 cludge way is to use nonstandard syntax that for some reason works in both maya 5 aand 4.5 but no longer in 6. (was to be expected, i use way 3)

[ame]

The solution that I'm using right now, but it's not really nice (also because I use the annotiation tag for "annotation" and not to store mel code - I know I'm silly). is to quary the shelf and each icons and add my menu to it, of course if I delete the icon or change position of the item it would not work any more.

This is why it should be handle by Alias so I do not need to go and change the bahaviour of the standard maya UI every time Alias change the shelf, some operation are easy to do it but some other are a little bit longer to implement. some UI changes should be done by alias and make them standards. The shelf has not been changed in a quite sometimes and it would be good to have an update, considering this is a very simple task and would require a minimal effort from Alias.

[joojaa]

easiest way to do th writing down is to overload saveShelf wich could looklike this

global proc int saveShelf(string $name,string $parent){
print $parent;
//now use parent to info to querrry all buttons in it and then their children and write to file.
}

A overloaded command will use the mel equalient if available instead of the command!

what so nifty is that the change here is totaly transparent to maya code and totaly modular!

[ame]

Still it's something I would like to have alias handle for me.

Also another improvements would be the ability to groups layers in sub groups (ala photoshop) with master controlls to collapse them and expand, and at file importn define if the new imported layer should be part of a new layer group or not.

Just that we are talking, and I'm really thinking I should get some sleep otherwise in the morning well I'll be tired (I imagine a lot of people are going to be bored with this thread by now )

[fitzycats]

well, i've been designing flash, cd, and now application interfaces much longer than i've been meddling with maya, and i must say, i agree . . . maya's UI is really ugly. it "works", you can customize it etc, but it just looks like it was designed by a programmer and not an interface designer.

i like you're version much more.

are you going to sell it??? i'll buy.

thanks,

-sunyate

[joojaa]

What does it matter how it looks like, the thing is its super efficient. I mean its infinitely more better than using emacs (wich i do alll the time by the way, to manualy write ribs and mi files)!

[failure]

"Interface design" is not about making the look.