Monitors and dot pitch and

[marvin2k1]

recently saw a monitor with a .20 dp...how does this translate into image quality compared to a .25 dp screen? would it be worth getting if i do a lot of stuff for print, or is it not that big a deal? also, as far as lcd screens- can the black level match that of the typical crt?

[kiwi]

dp or "dot pitch" is the distance between picture elements (pixels)

Supposedly, the lower the .dp, the "better" the perceived resolution.

However, there are many different ways by which manufacturers determine dot pitch, and a good dot pitch number doesn't always guarantee a good picture.

Black level and contrast ratios for LCD screens are quite good nowadays, and the new (expensive digital) ones can easily match or beat a high-end CRT in both of those measures.

As always, the best way to know if a monitor is any good is to go take a look at it running at your required resolution.

***I always go here ( www.tomshardware.com ) before I buy anything to see if they have done any reviews...........

kiwi

[marlio]

These days, you can get a perfectly flat CRT with virtually 0.0dp, such as those by Sony, Viewsonic, and others. This would especially help for accurate print work.

Most LCDs don't yet have all of the color correction capabilities of CRT monitors, and that's a big can of worms to open if you're into color matching. Check out Lacie's ElectronBlue monitors in that case

[juan-sanchez]

I, being devils advocate as always. beg to differ....
an LCD by definition is not comparable to a CRT monitor, mainly due to the vastly different Gamma of LCD & CRT screens, the LCD has a MUCH narrower gamut.

As for the 'resolution'/dot pitch question, LCD's are great at their 'recommended resolution' but due to the technology they're produced with, are MUCH 'fuzzier' than a CRT, displaying aliasing much more apparently if running at anything other than their 'fixed' (read 'recommended') resolution.

Any print designer worth their salt will work on a nice CRT for these reasons.

[1000101-]

I agree wholeheartedly. Flat panel displays colors are off; they only display right at 1 resolution; they offer less screen space; they cost twice as much; and they still have some measure of ghosting..
eww

That Ole Russell

[marvin2k1]

same thing goes for lap top screens , correct? I notice that there is some difference between graphics i make on my laptop, in terms of colors of things, compared to when i view the same gfx on my desktop crt. with all these super duper mobile workstations, you'd think they'd come up with a way to acheive just as super image quality. who cares if you have a quadro and a gig of ram in your toshiba if the screen cant display things how they REALLY look.

[kiwi]

OK - here we go with the semantics.............

While is seems to be evident that color calibration is more difficult on LCD displays, there are calibrators that will get you very close............

The less expensive analog LCD/plasma displays are still fuzzy -

-however, DIGITAL LCD displays are much clearer than any CRT available today. There is absolutely ZERO ghosting and ZERO convergence error.
Every Pixel is addressed by a specific place in video RAM.

Likewise, the contrast ratio and color saturation are better on the high-end flat panel displays............

Like it or not.........LCD and plasma technology is going away and will likely be obsolete within only a few years.

kiwi

[kiwi]

"These days, you can get a perfectly flat CRT with virtually 0.0dp, such as those by Sony, Viewsonic, and others. This would especially help for accurate print work."

**Sony's best 21" Pro CRT monotor still has a .22mm dot pitch..............

kiwi

[1000101-]

I'd take sony's best 21" monitor over a flat panel anyday. Its gonna be about half as much as a flat panel that has the same ammount of viewable space; and its gonna look better.

That Ole Russell

[marvin2k1]

i am afraid of pixilitis when it comes to LCD---those bastards are, i'm quite sure, expensive to have fixed. What is the standard warranty on a lcd monitor? I'm not in the market for some 4000$ plasma [censored] either...that's useless. Digital lcd and non digital? whats a good digital one in the range of 17-19 inches?

[aaron_johnson]

...don't u mean CRT technology will soon be obselete...? (i think it will be longer than a few years...)

[kiwi]

right. that's what i mean......(thanks Cipher)

Hitachi has discontinued all non LCD displays
http://www.itworld.com/Comp/3952/IDG010726hitachi/

Apple has stopped offering CRT's as well.

IBM has developed (and is shipping) this LCD display which has 4.5 times more resolution than the best HDTV monitor, 12 times better than XVGA.
http://www.storage.ibm.com/lcd/technology/...displaytech.htm
specs here: http://www.storage.ibm.com/lcd/products/md...md2229index.htm

kiwi

[aaron_johnson]

OMFG, DVI x 4 interface... that would be sweet... if only there were more midrange (but still DVI) flat panels that were more affordable.

it's great to see manufacturers stop making CRTs, its the only way their gonna become obselete. i bought my Sony 19" trinitron 3 years ago, i swore i'd never buy another CRT again because of nuked eyeball syndrome etc. and they're just a hassle if u have to relocate. a flat panel weighs a fraction of a CRT, uses a fraction of the space and heaps less power, u can take 'em anywhere. i can't believe its taking so long to get good LCDs developed better and cheaper. here in New Zealand a SGI-1600SW through official channels would be around $6,500 + MLA (US$2,500 + MLA). i'll prbly buy a 1600 tho, as soon as i decide on a GF3

[juan-sanchez]

I still think you're a little off the mark kiwi.

Apple ceased making(read labelling) their own CRT monitors for one main reason....have you seen the new iMac ?

As for the IBM you link to >>
"QUXGA-Wide addressability (3840x2400 pixels), provides a resolution of 204 pixels per inch (ppi) at 16:10 aspect ratio"
<<
It's still going to be rather 'rough' on the more intricate details
at 204ppi surely......
I wanted to compare it's 'brightness' figure to their CRT monitors, but the site was so slow I couldn't wait around.

I'm still finding it hard to believe that an LCD can approach a CRT on the colour & brightness stakes,...have you ever seen any independant 'scientific'(ish) tests ?

[kiwi]

more from the IBM R&D website:
http://www.research.ibm.com/roentgen/

"....IBM Research has developed a display screen that is so precise it's as clear as the original paper document. The new display is the culmination of a research project code-named Roentgen. "

"....At 200 ppi, Roentgen's pixels are finer than those on a typical Cathode-Ray Tube (CRT) monitor, which has between 80 and 100 ppi. A 10-point character on the new display has four times as many pixels as the same character on a CRT monitor, which translates into sharper edges and crisper images. ..."

I would argue that human sight probably can't resolve the benefit of a display that offers more than 200ppi.
That's about as fine as the actual object would appear from a distance of about 18 inches or more.

As far as color gammut, et. all, I would guess that advances in materials technology and engineering will provide a remedy for that sooner than later.

kiwi

[juan-sanchez]

AH but,.....
even Tom says (>>http://www6.tomshardware.com/display/01q4/011128/crt-08.!!
html<"If you do a lot of text work, note that shadow mask CRTs tend to give a sharper picture. If accurate color reproduction is more important to you, then an aperture grille CRT might be a better choice.If desk space is at a premium, then LCDs might be a good alternative though they are fixed resolution, and generally not well suited to video or animation."

& I bet I could see the difference,....after 10 or so years of wearing spectacles last time I went to the opticians (I'm English so we don't have 'optometrists' as most of the chaps here ) I was told I had "better than 20/20 vision" & didn't need them !!!!!!

I guess at the moment there's 'maybe' technologies that can do 'AS GOOD' as CRT, but you'd have to sell your Granny, your Mum, your sister & the Goldfish to set up a research dept. to build it for you but I can't see CRT's being replaced to any real degree in the near future. Unless you've money to burn or need to look particularly cool there's no real reason to go to LCD

PS. How much for you sister ? would you take my Dual 4GHZ Athlon with infinite impossibility drive in exchange ?