sell me

[timaging]

I just got back from a demo of Maya on OSX. I currently use Cinema 4DXL. The founder of Wavefront was there too. Almost everything I asked about (Hupernurbs, Radiosity, fillet, metaballs) we not available in unlimited and on top of that, the package isn't the same as the version for NT. I think I unknowindly pissed off the founder as he commented on Cinema being an entry level app, and yet I have Dynamics, particle collision, radiosity, true caustics, etc...somebody sell me on why I should pay twice as much for Maya unlimited! I really do want to buy it, but the people running the seminar didn't seem interested.

Dave

Taylor Imaging
651 Boylston St. 4th floor
Boston, MA 02116

[admin]

Well no one should have to sell you on a package - unless they get paid for doing that . The question is what do you use 3d for? What are your needs? The package that works best for your needs is the package you should use. Post what your needs are and I think that will help.

Will

[kiwi]

In reply to:
I just got back from a demo of Maya on OSX. I currently use Cinema 4DXL. The founder of Wavefront was there too. Almost everything I asked about (Hupernurbs, Radiosity, fillet, metaballs) we not available in unlimited and on top of that, the package isn't the same as the version for NT. I think I unknowindly pissed off the founder as he commented on Cinema being an entry level app, and yet I have Dynamics, particle collision, radiosity, true caustics, etc...somebody sell me on why I should pay twice as much for Maya unlimited! I really do want to buy it, but the people running the seminar didn't seem interested.

DaveTaylor Imaging
651 Boylston St. 4th floor
Boston, MA 02116

OK. You are partly correct. You just named THE ONLY three things that Cinema3DXL does better than MayaOSX ("3.5") or Maya Complete.
-and i'll further give you that, for what it cost, your package is a darn good value. -great looking renderer....

But now let us talk about some areas in Maya that clearly out-gun every other 3D app on OSX (and probably any other platforms). -Strengths that would be well worth the $5495 (Maya complete, MayaOSX) for any animators doing high volume, "high-end" production work.

here we go:

superior IK setup and animation/constraint tools (and superior workflows) (let's not forget about workflow in as a general rule)
superior skinning/binding
superior scripting
connection editor (dynamic linking)
robust, elegant expressions
superior dynamics and rules-based physical interaction
truly powerful integrated dynamic particle system
TRAX non-linear animation editor (this will be on-par with XSI ....mark my words)
more deformers than you can shake a apple one-button mouse at
-and then our friend, SET DRIVEN KEY!

Artisan ('nuff said)
paint nearly any Attrib

world-class NURBS tools (and how often do you have to use a fillet?)(really.) (wouldn't you rather have custom controls for NURBS tesselation?)
gamedev-proven Poly modeling tools (don't get me started...id Software uses it. what else can I say?)
sculpt NURBS surfaces/polygons using an Artisan brush as deformer

Paint FX

(did I mention Paint FX?)
(did I mention Artisan?)

IPR
more powerful procedural shaders
free multi-node rendering

There is a bunch more that I'm not thinking of right now or don't know about, but one starts to get the general idea.........

The combination of these (and other) tools -along with all the others that Cinema4D and Maya share in common makes Maya well worth it if you want maximum productivity (and profitability) from your 3D software.

now, let's look down the road a bit........

Let us assume (for the sake of agurement) that Maya OSX and Maya Complete will probably need to improve the following areas sometime in the next release or so (or be in big trouble) :

-SubD's (this is easy...just include it for the price)
-rendering (in the works....a top priority)(also look for integrated Mental Ray plugin VERY soon)
-realtime viewing of higher-order materials, shaders, volumetrics (relatively easy to do with recent hardware advances)(20 to 1 it's in the next release)
-better native support for compositing environments/file formats

and less importantly:
-text
-uhhhhhhh
-i can't think of anything else.................................

So. Even if they only get to half of those points (my percieved Maya weaknesses), Maya should still be the one to beat for some time to come.

(% *&?ing bring it on)

kiwi

[timaging]

In reply to:
The question is what do you use 3d for? What are your needs?
Will

I would say mostly digital content creation. We haven't had much use for CA at all, but I would certainly like to get into it. I do quite a bit of work more business presentation or simulation related, but I'd like to speed up the workflow. The speed of the Maya rendering worries me though and I would be concerned about the quality too. I know from experience that I can get some fantastic and quick results. from Cinema in that area. My main goal here is to pick up an app that I can use and have the ability to qualify myself to some of the larger studios for subcontract work. I've done a bit of broadcast intros, but only internally just to get my chops together. Cinema isn't working out in that department...but at the same time, we are a smaller firm, so 16000 for Maya Unlimited, plus having to go and get Renderman for 5k is just a bit too much. Also, we have 6 macs here and only 1 PC running NT...and it's a test station, so it's slower for quality testing CD ROM deliverables.

Thank you for listening. I'm sure the "software vs. software" threads can be a pain. I know that they are tiring on the Cinema lists, battling it out with Lightwave on a daily basis.

Dave

Taylor Imaging
651 Boylston St. 4th floor
Boston, MA 02116

[timaging]

In reply to:-and i'll further give you that, for what it cost, your package is a darn good value. -great looking renderer...

yeah..the renders sure do look good. I wonder if I can bring Maya work intact into Cinema and render there? hmmm...

In reply to:for any animators doing high volume, "high-end" production work.

well, we're a smaller shop, but I would like to get my production time down a bit...

In reply to:-and then our friend, SET DRIVEN KEY!

not sure what this is, but I'll check out the Alias site and see what I can find.

Artisan ('nuff said)

yeah...unbelievable!!!

In reply to:world-class NURBS tools (and how often do you have to use a fillet?)(really.)

I make round corner cubes all the time. Is this possible with these tools that you speak of? They couldn't seem to readily pull that off at the demo. Maybe he was a CA guy and just didn't know how?

In reply to:The combination of these (and other) tools -along with all the others that Cinema4D and Maya share in common makes Maya well worth it if you want maximum productivity (and profitability) from your 3D software.

now, let's look down the road a bit........

Let us assume (for the sake of agurement) that Maya OSX and Maya Complete will probably need to improve the following areas sometime in the next release or so (or be in big trouble) :

-SubD's (this is easy...just include it for the price)
-rendering (in the works....a top priority)(also look for integrated Mental Ray plugin VERY soon)
-realtime viewing of higher-order materials, shaders, volumetrics (relatively easy to do with recent hardware advances)(20 to 1 it's in the next release)
-better native support for compositing environments/file formats

the BIG question: when will it be ready for OSX? I know that this is already .5 versions behind and possible about to fall to one full version behind. That could be a bummer for those of us that want to pass files to the big boys.

Thanks for the long post. I appreciate all your input!

Dave

Taylor Imaging
651 Boylston St. 4th floor
Boston, MA 02116

[suonlim]

Hi Dave,

Nice to see a Cinema4D folk here, we might have met each other in the C4D forum before. I started 3D with C4D 3 years ago and picked up Maya last year.

Being"spoilt" by the rendering speed of C4D, the first thing you will get frustrated will be the Maya renderer, and lot of different approach from this gigantic 3D big brother, eventhough both of their GUI icon looks pretty similar.

Maya is ten time difficult to learn than C4D, so you have to be prepared for the steeve learning curve. I can handle C4D in 2 months from zero base, but more than 6 months from C4D to Maya. But once you've mastered Maya, you will fall in love with the power and flexibilities in this software and now I am modeling my character in Maya and rendered it in C4D.

Here's some personal pov..

C4D is best for handling huge file and you will be surprised Maya can't even handle half of the scene size of C4D. Never think of using Maya in architectual if you have C4D.

C4D renderer is so much faster and stable, you will face some problems which you will never expect to be happen but it does in Maya. (Hangs, crashes, scene optimization, shader missing.....)

But...
Maya nurb modeling is one of the best, easier than C4D.
You can expand the feature very easily, just look at the mel script and plug-ins from this site.
And lot of features they've mentioned above.
Try to find a way to merge the best of C4D and Maya, you will be one of the most happy 3D guy in the world!

Best wishes
suon oon
www.wishingwellasia.com

[timaging]

Hi suon,

How are you passing files back and forth to Cinema? So, it sounds like I'll be using Maya for the name, plus a few other things, since I do quite a bit of high poly work...no gaming at all.

Thanks!
Dave

Taylor Imaging
651 Boylston St. 4th floor
Boston, MA 02116

[suonlim]

Hi Dave,

So far the only file type is .obj and 3ds, I've checked with BodyPaint forum and obj is so far the best way to convert the file from C4D to Maya. If I model in Maya nurb, I will export it part by part in obj and apply the texture later in C4D, the "export selection" function in Maya is quite handy for this type of job, and you can define the smoothness of the surface as well.

Maya>C4D is a good choice for simple animation job or still image and for tight deadline. (yah, because of the renderer.) In some cases, if you encounter some much complicated job and need to animate in Maya, I will suggest you to do everything in Maya and keep most of your object in nurbs. This is what I learnt from my first Maya job, where I was still confused with the modeling tools, I took a short cut and model the whole scene in C4D and convert them part by part to Maya and animate them, the nightmare started as Maya can't handle huge poly very well and it began unstable and very slow. But I will say it's still a good experience to encounter such problem and now understand there's no such thing as "Best 3D software" around.

You can see the piece of work in our 3D portfolio section, the title of the job is "Newsweek".
Let me know if you are interested with the animation.

Best luck
suon oon
www.wishingwellasia.com

In reply to:
Hi suon,

How are you passing files back and forth to Cinema? So, it sounds like I'll be using Maya for the name, plus a few other things, since I do quite a bit of high poly work...no gaming at all.

Thanks!
DaveTaylor Imaging
651 Boylston St. 4th floor
Boston, MA 02116

[timaging]

Hi Suon,
I did check out your site last night...very nice. I recognize some of hte stuff. I sure do wish Cinema had a bigget name. I need to get more clients andthey all require either Maya, StudioMax, SoftImage or Lightware, so I need to pick on and learn it. I am glad to see I'll still be able to snak in Cinama to make deakline, since I'm really only learning this for the job...ALTHOUGH I have done some preliminary work in Maya already and found the workflow and the way to model to be truly incredible.

You can check out some of our stuff at www.taylorimaging.com too.

Thanks,
Dave

Taylor Imaging
651 Boylston St. 4th floor
Boston, MA 02116