So What Major Advantage Do Fluids Have?

[allegro]

Granted I've only been looking at fluids for a couple of weeks, but I'm not really sure what their purpose is.

It seems like if you want smoke or fire, or even water, you would probably want to use softbodies, or particles before you'd turn to fluids.

Am I wrong? Or are fluids really only good for mimicing large bodies of water? I guess you could have a fluid stretched over a wall or something if you wanted to use it as a portal of sorts... or have something ripple.

Basically... what I'm looking for is for someone to suggest some clear examples of why someone would want to use fluids in maya over another method.

[david-schoneveld]

yes, you're wrong. I use fluids for just about everything and then I might add or change methodes to particles and softbodies. You'll just need to learn more about it in order to understand their stregnths. Generally the most common effects asked for in film can be done to a more pollished degree with fluids if you know how.

[allegro]

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not at all challenging what you're saying, I just want to understand it better.

Can you give an example of something you've done, and why fluids worked better for it?

[allegro]

And sorry, when I say fluids, I'm not refering to fluids in any program other than maya.

[david-schoneveld]

Dust and smoke, for example, looks better with fluids, than any thing you can do with particles in maya. It's motion can be far more complex and it can be lite much better. Particles are good and very controlable. When you know what you are doing with fluids you can make it faster and like I said more polished.

My we site has examples...

www.agentfx.com

the main fx you see are with fluids. The shots after the nike commercial are a bit older but you can still get the idea.

[allegro]

How did you get into fluids to start with?

[david-schoneveld]

LOL, actually, I was hired to use a particle system that a guy out of house wrote in mel (simple dust). For 3 weeks I tried to get the look of this huge dust cloud and other dust effects. 3 weeks and I was getting no where closer than where I was after a day or so. The suoervisior keep pointing to a fluid example and said, "Make it look like that" I said well that's fluids and I can't make it look like that w/o, well, fluids. The lead fx artist at the time said that there is NO way we're using fluids! They are too unpredicatble and uncontrolable, he'd then go into an long explanation of why we're not using them and how they hard they are to work with. And he was at the time managing me, so I had to continue to try to get the look from this particle system that I knew would never get there.
As fate would have it, he got very stressed from the job requirements and quit. First thing I did when he left was started messing with fludis. There wasn't very much material on fluids at the time so I got the 2 DVDs out there and did every tutorial I could find and read the docs through multiple times, read all of Duncan's previous posts on highend and cgTalk until I could get a look that the director, sup, and other managment would be happy with.
Then every time I was asked to do another effect I would try many different methods and it would always end up that the best test was the fluid test, so I'd go with the fluid method for that shot. I love particles with the logic, and express controllability, but the look of fluids often surpasses those qualities.

A very painful way to learn fluids or anything. Basically, I feel that Duncan Brinsmead taught me almost everything I know, from the first Alias fluid DVD to the Masters class at siggraph, to his extensive and gracious answers that he so freely gives online. I'm sure I speak for a lot of the Maya Dynamics/paint fx community when I say that there will always be a place in our hearts for him because of that. I'm still astonished at the time he puts into sharing his knowledge. I've never heard of anyone else in a position like that doing anywhere near the same.

[david-schoneveld]

another note on Duncan's posts...

Since he understands Maya like you nor I will ever, make a word doc with your questions and his answers and reread that as many times as it takes until you understand it. Don't feel like you're not very good at Maya b/c you don't get it right away. It's worth it to dissect what he's saying and do tests and try out many times and different ways to better understand. Basically make your own personal "Duncan's Corner" (his Alias blog).

There are still posts with his MEL scripts, and cache techniques that I have yet to fully (sometimes even partly) understand how they work.

You have to understand he's an artist and a scientist. Trying to keep up with him can be taxing on your understanding of Maya. When you finally do get it you'll feel so much smarter, well, at least I do. Maybe other people have an easier time with it then me.

[allegro]

well, I'm definately trying to understand

I tried out that paint effects rain on an ocean surface two weeks ago, and considering that three weeks ago I knew absolutely nothing about fluids.... let alone particles (which I've been forced to pick up on as well) I think I'm making some progress.

When you know nothing, you can understand little.

Basically right now, I've done some work with ocean / pond... just making ripples and make the ripples interact with other objects. There's too many dvd's and such out there, but they mostly all cost money. And when you're eating one meal a day, you tend to be a bit weary about spending money.

I have been playing with realflow this past week, as I'm going to be trying to make a teleport effect using a bubble of water in a couple of weeks, and a waterfall as well.

It's tough to teach yourself effects while trying to keep up in a character animation course...

[david-schoneveld]

QUOTE(Allegro @ 10/25/05, 11:04 AM)
It's tough to teach yourself effects while trying to keep up in a character animation course...
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True, in school I could only focus on effects for a month and mainly did character animation. I got a job doing compositing and moved into fx when they say I could do 3d well also.

I think it's hard to teach yourself fx when someone isn't buying the DVD's and paying you to learn like I had hte benifit of. I didn't buy the DVD's I had the company do that. I just got the benifits.

I recommend the gnomon DVD's for fx. See if anyone is school had them that you can see. You don't always have to buy them, most schools have them in their liberary. You could make a request for your library to get them. If they do get them, don't stop there, get the Alias and Digital tutors if they're buying. I did, it's the best way to see them. At my school they had them but I didn't see them until I started working and they had them there.

[allegro]

Yeah... I'm actually pretty mad about that. Our coordinator told me about 9 weeks ago that he'd get the Gnomon digital bundle for the library.

Turns out he never even checked into it... and I've reminded him about 5 times since then.

Seems like they're doing what he can to keep us off the computers here at Sheridan.

I finally upgraded my own computer and got Realflow and a Digital Tutors dvd last week. I might get some of the Gnomon ones too... try to get early christmas presents or something cause I've pretty much spent my budget.

[superegophobia]

QUOTE(Allegro @ 10/26/05, 07:38 AM)
Turns out he never even checked into it... and I've reminded him about 5 times since then.

I finally upgraded my own computer and got Realflow and a Digital Tutors dvd last week.  I might get some of the Gnomon ones too... try to get early christmas presents or something cause I've pretty much spent my budget.
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True it's hard when you're in school to find extra money for training DVDs but honestly whatever cash you can get together I would put it toward learning. I always think of training materials as an investment considering it directly increases your worth as an employee. And if you can't count on your school to get materials, you have to get them yourself... you'll be glad you did when you start doing freelance and/or looking for a full time gig.

[joojaa]

well sometimes shool is the money you spent... Note by the way I live in a county where university studies are FREE of charge, or actualy they pay you meoney to take them.

[allegro]

Yeah... I'm $30k in debt right now and still have another year of school left (after this one) if I want my piece of paper. I finally understand that I need to be getting these things on my own... but well... there's only so much I can spend at the moment. I'm trying to get some now though.