Wire Deformers

[doug-hines]

I have a character setup with wire deformers in the face, with both the baseWire and wireShape parented under the head joint. Connected to this deformer's cvs is a GUI control. If I leave the head joint untouched the GUI control deforms the CVs correctly and the mesh deforms correctly.

However, after I rotate the head control and attempt to use the GUI to deform the mesh, the mesh deforms incorrectly.

Any ideas as to how I might fix this?

[tjgalda]

You'll be getting double transformation because of the baseWire being parented incorrectly. The baseWire is the shape that tells Maya what the original curve looked like. This allows comparisons between where the curve is and where it originated from. That means that it has to stay still.

Try putting the baseWire in a group that isn't parented to the character and will stay put. You'll likely have a group like this that also holds your surfaces that are bound, etc.

Cheers,

tj

[doug-hines]

QUOTE(tjgalda @ 01/02/08, 01:32 PM) [snapback]279043[/snapback]
You'll be getting double transformation because of the baseWire being parented incorrectly. The baseWire is the shape that tells Maya what the original curve looked like. This allows comparisons between where the curve is and where it originated from. That means that it has to stay still.

Try putting the baseWire in a group that isn't parented to the character and will stay put. You'll likely have a group like this that also holds your surfaces that are bound, etc.

Cheers,

tj

I dont have double transforms. This is what's happening: I rotate the head control box and attempt to use my GUI that drives the CV curves on the wires and the wire weights act as though they did not move with the rotation. The CVs still move correctly but the weights aren't.

I tried pulling the baseWires out from under the head joint and moved the head around, I got double transforms when I did this. I had to pull both sets of wires (baseWire and wireShape) into the seperate group. This still doesn't fix my problem, as I still get double transforms. Not much of them, but they are there.

[tjgalda]

Good to know your parenting and grouping is all correct.

How is your GUI driving the cv's of the curve? Are you using local or global translations? It sounds like that your GUI might be sending translations globally and not relatively.

[doug-hines]

The heirarchy is setup like this...
spine
spine
spine
neck
head
wireBases
wireShapes
GUI

I'm sending Translates via SDK to the curve CVs
The wire deformer blendShape is set to parallel and local

[tjgalda]

I'll send you a PM, I think I'll need to look at your scene.

QUOTE(kurokawa @ 01/02/08, 03:13 PM) [snapback]279054[/snapback]
The heirarchy is setup like this...
spine
spine
spine
neck
head
wireBases
wireShapes
GUI
I'm sending Translates via SDK to the curve CVs
The wire deformer blendShape is set to parallel and local

[joojaa]

I still wote its a double transform not a apparent one, but still double. (you can get double trasforms from other sources than parentting too)

[doug-hines]

Whats weird is that I recreated the heirarchy at home and it works perfectly

[doug-hines]

So, I have compared the two heirarchies. The one at home (the one that works) has the wire deformers with no frozen transforms and a history of

CODE
INPUTS
  wire1
  skinCluster1
  tweak1

while the other heirarchy has a history of
CODE
INPUTS
  _mesh
  parallelBlender
  polySoftEdge1
  skinCluster1
  tweak1
  REye_wire
  LEye_Wire
  Brow_Wire

Does the skinCluster1 need to be moved after the wires? Is it possible to rearrange the input stack?

[tjgalda]

Hey Doug,

I looked at your scene file and your post above. Your problems are stemming from your input order, as you guessed. You need to have the skinCluster happen below the wire in the input list. To fix this, it's simple:

Right click on your mesh, select:

Inputs -> All Inputs ...

You'll get a window popping up which is your input editor. You can middle mouse drag your items up and down to move them in the list. You'll want to ensure your skin cluster is right near the bottom in this case. I'll also bet that your tweak node should be at the very bottom.

After that, you'll be good to go.

Cheers,

tj

[joojaa]

QUOTE(tjgalda @ 01/03/08, 08:20 PM) [snapback]279103[/snapback]
I looked at your scene file and your post above. Your problems are stemming from your input order, as you guessed. You need to have the skinCluster happen below the wire in the input list.

And that is a double transform, just not with transform nodes so its not allways called a douple transform.

[doug-hines]

I have tried moving the shapes down via MMB, but I get the warnings

CODE
reorderDeformers "Brow_Wire" "skinCluster1" "Bungo_model:polySurface102";
// Warning: line 0: Brow_Wire is not deforming polySurfaceShape102Deformed. //
reorderDeformers "Brow_Wire" "tweak1" "Bungo_model:polySurface102";
// Warning: line 0: Brow_Wire is not deforming polySurfaceShape102Deformed. //

Below is a screenshot of almost everything besides the actual mesh... and yes, the mesh has been referenced into the scene.

Screen Shot

[tjgalda]

Strange. Is the model referenced?

A wire is a deformer and normally this doesn't have issues. The example scene you sent worked fine.

[doug-hines]

Yes, the model is referenced. I have tried "Importing objects from referenced files" but it does not seem to help.

[tjgalda]

You need to change the deformation order so your skin is at the bottom. But the errors you were getting are due to the fact that the geo was referenced.

Looks like the reorderDeformers command doesn't like to work on referenced geo. I haven't delved too deeply in to it, but have you tried applying your wires on the geo prior to referencing?

The other alternative is far uglier. It is possible to disconnect via the hypergraph and reorder the deformers manually. I know that works, but it isn't the "suggested' method.

[doug-hines]

Unfortunately, no such luck.

I imported the referenced files and reapplied the wire deformers but I still get the same warning when I attempt to re-order the stack

Does it matter that I am using 1 wire deformer per curve? Should I use 1 for all of them?
Should they be parallel deformers? Or something else?

I might end up using blendshapes instead of wire deformers if no solution can be found.

Thanks
Doug

[tjgalda]

Nope, it shouldn't matter that you have more. I often have several to dozens of deformers, depending on the complexity of the model.

Have you tried to see if you can reorder any deformers at all on your model? The fun part about using blendshapes, is that they should happen prior to the skin, so you may have to reorder them as well.

Have you tried applying the wire on a non-referenced model? Not just importing in the references? I've had some funky things happen due to referencing over the years...

[doug-hines]

I applied the wires to the original mesh and it worked fine. I imported the referenced file. deleted the history. rebound and copied over the weights so I have a "clean" mesh. Still no luck.

[seith]

Hi, I don't know if you finally fixed your problem, but I just wanted to say that on Maya 8.5, any influence added to a skin cluster (e.g.: wire deformer) was plagued with double transforms, whatever you do. It was a HUGE bug that was only fixed in the SP1 of Maya 8.5 (8.0 and Maya 2008 are fine though). So I would suggest to try your setup on a different version of Maya, if you can, and see if you still get the same problem...